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Join me for an exciting conversation with Megan Saunders, the Director of ESG at Kayne Anderson Real Estate, as she shares her insights and best practices on how to advance environmental, social, and governance (ESG) in real estate.
With 15 years of experience in sustainability strategy and implementation, Megan has a deep understanding of what it takes to make a building green, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and balance people, planet, and profit.
Megan talks about how she sets ESG strategy for the entire real estate firm, collaborates with partners, and leads a team in implementing measures to make their real estate assets and organization more sustainable.
She also shares her thoughts on the importance of effective communication and collaboration skills for sustainability professionals to succeed in their work.
Don’t miss out on this opportunity to peek behind the scenes of Megan’s impactful work and learn how to advance ESG in real estate.
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The following transcript has been edited to make it easier to read.
Introducing Megan Saunders: Director of ESG at Kayne Anderson Real Estate.
00:00 Louis DeMaso
Hello and welcome to the Sustainability Skill Set podcast, a show where we explore careers in sustainability and the skills you need to succeed.
I am glad you are here.
If you are passionate about sustainability and hungry to learn, you are in the right place.
I’m your host, Louis DeMaso, a sustainability consultant and young sustainability professional, learning right along with you.
I am thrilled to be speaking with Megan Saunders today. Megan is the Director of ESG at Kayne Anderson Real Estate, a private equity firm that manages over $14 billion in assets. They focus on medical offices, high-end senior housing, off-campus student housing, multifamily properties, and self-storage.
Megan has 15 years of experience in sustainability strategy and implementation, including developing corporate goals, overseeing projects, and building partnerships to drive systems change. She has held sustainability roles in corporate, consulting, non-profit, and startup environments. She is also a real estate investor herself!
For example, she was previously the Director of Sustainability at Lendlease in their Communities Business. She helped implement their decarbonization strategy for a large portfolio of 40,000 homes and 12,000 hotel rooms. She also used the TCFD framework to assess the climate-related risks of their portfolio, among other achievements.
She spent five years as a sustainability project manager at Vidaris in New York City leading design and construction teams to achieve LEED Certification, assess greenhouse gas emissions, and improve energy efficiency.
She was also the founding executive director of the Stamford 2030 district, a public-private partnership aiming to reduce energy use, water use, and transportation emissions in the city of Stamford, Connecticut.
Megan regularly speaks at events on decarbonizing real estate and managing ESG risk. She was recently recognized by the Environment and Energy Leader publication as one of the top 100 individuals driving innovation in energy management and environmental stewardship.
Megan is passionate about creating high-performance buildings that benefit people and the planet. She is here to share her insights and best practices on how to advance ESG in real estate. Please join me in welcoming Megan Saunders to the show!
01:53 Megan Saunders
Thanks for having me.
Megan works with partners, tenants, and employees on a daily basis to establish her company’s ESG strategy. She uses her diverse work history to understand the distinct viewpoints of everyone she interacts with.
02:10 Louis DeMaso
Could we start by diving into what you do at work every day and how you got to where you are?
02:19 Megan Saunders
Yeah, definitely. I joined Kayne Anderson Real Estate about nine months ago as the first Director of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG).
My role is to set the ESG strategy for the entire real estate firm and lead a team in implementing measures to make our real estate assets and organization more sustainable.
To achieve this, I work with our partners, operating partners, tenants, and employees on a daily basis to identify opportunities to create a positive impact on the communities where we operate.
I then report this progress back to our investors.
All of this is done while generating attractive risk-adjusted returns for our investors.
02:58 Louis DeMaso
That’s great. Could you describe your history and how you got into this role?
03:08 Megan Saunders
So, let’s start from the beginning.
As you mentioned, I’ve been in the field for a while and have had various experiences that led me to where I am today. However, it all began with my upbringing and childhood.
I grew up with my dad, who was a contractor. Some of my earliest memories are of being on a construction site with him, wearing my little pink tool belt and toolkit, and learning how to build with my own two hands.
The area I grew up in, New Jersey, was rapidly developing, which had an impact on environmental resources. Local aquifers were not able to recharge, which affected water resources.
As a result, the local government put restrictions on development in the area.
I started asking my dad, who was a builder, a lot of questions about efficient construction and how we could use better materials. Through that process, I learned that there was a better way to build that would have less of an impact on the environment, and I decided to make that my career.
All of my experiences growing up led me to pursue a master’s degree in urban planning since sustainability was not a focus back then. There weren’t many educational options for sustainability like there are now, which is amazing.
Through my studies in urban planning, I learned how to build better and how to balance people, planet, profit, and everything we do.
04:51 Louis DeMaso
I bet you don’t have the opportunity to don your construction belt too much anymore, do you?
05:02 Megan Saunders
No, I don’t. I wish I still had it actually, but I don’t.
05:08 Louis DeMaso
What did you learn in the past and throughout your career that helps you in your current role?
05:14 Megan Saunders
I have had a variety of roles throughout my career, which I see as part of my superpower.
I started my career in consulting, where I gained a deep understanding of what it takes to make a building green.
I then ran a nonprofit where I worked closely with large organizations to help them set and track their goals and reduce energy, water, and waste in their buildings.
I also had a short stint as a real estate broker and worked in the incentive space, where I learned about utility incentives from the federal, local governments, and utilities.
Later, I worked for a large global real estate developer, where I learned about construction and key materials.
Throughout my career, I have gained a unique perspective by sitting in every seat across the table of a real estate transaction.
This allows me to integrate ESG into our organization’s processes and strategy, and even at the asset level, I can put on every hat and think about what drives each perspective to create a better outcome that achieves everyone’s goals.
Effective communication and collaboration skills are crucial for sustainability professionals to succeed.
06:39 Louis DeMaso
That’s great! It seems like the ability to communicate across different functions and bring together various types of actors in these deals is an important aspect of your job.
Would you agree with that?
06:59 Megan Saunders
Absolutely. Effective communication and collaboration are crucial for sustainability professionals to succeed in their work. They must possess both technical expertise and the ability to explain complex concepts in simple terms.
Even if their colleagues are experts in the field, sustainability professionals may still need to communicate with investors and the public to explain the efficiency and cost savings achieved by their projects.
I recall my early days in graduate school, where I learned the importance of collaboration and teamwork through group presentations. Everyone has a role to play, and it’s up to the team leader to get everyone on board and moving in the same direction.
Another important skill is the ability to share your story with others. This not only helps to build your personal brand, but it also enhances your organization’s story and can be valuable in attracting investors and peers alike.
08:20 Louis DeMaso
It sounds like being able to convey the technical details of projects and share the benefits the group is achieving is an important aspect of your work.
Could you describe the types of conversations you’re having with different actors? What types of projects and improvements are you focused on achieving?
08:44 Megan Saunders
I’ll give you an example of how I work with teams every day.
Currently, we’re partnering to build a new multifamily development.
I work with our internal design and construction team to ensure that any identified efficiency measures are included in the building.
I also work with the project engineers to determine the level of efficiency we can achieve while prioritizing returns for investors.
Fund managers are also involved to ensure we meet our targets.
On the social side, I develop programming for residents and operating partners to ensure we align our goals to achieve higher occupancy.
This is just one example of what I do. I often have conversations with asset managers and investor boards to discuss our larger portfolio.
10:27 Louis DeMaso
It sounds like a lot of priorities to manage.
10:33 Megan Saunders
Yes, but that’s what makes it fun and exciting!
Aligning multiple stakeholders can be a challenging, but also enjoyable, part of the work.
10:17 Louis DeMaso
So, could you describe what you like most about your job?
10:53 Megan Saunders
One thing I particularly enjoy about my role is working with nearly everyone in the organization.
I collaborate with legal teams to ensure they understand our asset-level activities.
I also work with data teams to track asset performance, asset management to improve day-to-day operations, and deal teams to integrate ESG processes into asset buying and selling.
This is enjoyable because I get to work with many different people.
However, the downside is that I can’t really work independently.
I often tell my team that we could make decisions on our own, but having collective buy-in and learning from how others do their jobs is crucial to creating a successful process that everyone can follow and implement effectively.
11:53 Louis DeMaso
It sounds like you enjoy the challenge of working with these different actors and trying to bring together different perspectives.
12:01 Megan Saunders
Yes, I do. Although it may add time to the process, collaboration and involving multiple parties are key to success.
Understanding everyone’s concerns requires a deep understanding of the risks and pressures people are balancing in their roles.
12:20 Louis DeMaso
Could you share any lessons or tips you’ve learned over the years on how to bring those kinds of actors together and how to foster that collaboration?
12:28 Megan Saunders
In my opinion, it’s important to communicate with everyone.
As part of my role, I need to understand what’s happening on all sides of the business. This means being in communication with folks from the deal team to the asset management teams, understanding what’s happening at the fund level, and being able to speak the language of all those people.
It’s important to understand what everyone’s key concerns are.
At the end of the day, my role is to measure social and environmental risk across the organization and then find opportunities to make an impact. This requires a deep understanding of the risks and what people are balancing in each of their roles.
Legal personnel may have a very different idea of what risk is compared to someone from the deal team. Finding a balance between meeting both of their needs while working towards a sustainable future is crucial.
13:34 Louis DeMaso
Definitely. It’s interesting that you mentioned risk because ESG and sustainability are all about managing risk.
However, we also talked earlier about impact, so there are two sides to the great things you all are doing: helping internally to manage risks and creating a positive impact.
13:56 Megan Saunders
Right, exactly. From the built environment perspective, our priorities may differ from those of other corporations.
On the “E” side of ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance), we aim to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by making our buildings more efficient and reducing gas usage. This is critical because the built environment is responsible for approximately 40% of global carbon emissions, making it our biggest challenge.
On the social side, our focus is on human rights and equity. Our policies impact our tenants, employees, and vendors, so our work is centered around building relationships with people. Health and wellness is a significant aspect of this work, given that it affects the people who live in and operate our buildings.
Lastly, on the governance side, we strive to ensure that our corporate practices align with industry standards. This is particularly important in real estate, where our supply chain and vendor relationships are key factors to consider.
After developing a broad understanding of your industry, it is often essential to become a subject matter expert and narrow your focus.
15:03 Louis DeMaso
During our conversation, you mentioned that you have worked across many different types of roles, including consulting, nonprofit work, and even starting the Stanford 2030 district.
Could you describe the differences between those roles and how they have contributed to your current skill set?
15:12 Megan Saunders
Yeah, I have to say that my previous experiences allowed me to gain exposure to both technical and broad fields.
For example, in my early work as a lead consultant, I was fresh out of school with a master’s degree, and although I had a good understanding of real estate development, I didn’t know much about integrating sustainability across assets.
I learned that I needed to be able to get technical since I was sitting at a table with engineers, architects, developers, and building owners. I needed to be able to dive deep.
During that time, I pursued a certificate in HVAC design to understand building systems better, which was a pivotal moment in my career.
To develop your skill set in any field of sustainability, it’s essential to have a technical understanding and become a subject matter expert to some extent. My early experiences helped me to do that.
Later, when I ran a nonprofit, I engaged with corporations and helped them set goals and track metrics, which gave me a different perspective on priorities at the corporate level.
Even later, as a designer, I focused on making buildings both aesthetically pleasing and sustainable. I also explored how to integrate programming into schools to educate students on being more sustainable.
All of these experiences, including working for a development firm, prepared me well for my current role where I manage consultants to get technical work done on our projects, work to meet corporate goals, and ensure our buildings are aesthetically desirable to increase leasing.
Encouraging people to get involved in many things and find opportunities to dive deep is important, since it’s essential to be both technical and broad.
19:00 Louis DeMaso
It’s clear how your diverse experiences have contributed to your skill set, which allows you to manage across different roles.
I appreciate that you mentioned the term “subject matter expert” because it’s relevant to sustainability, which is a broad topic.
When someone wants to pursue a career in sustainability, they may wonder what that even means, given how fields are involved.
Sustainability can be applied to almost any industry and any role, but it often comes down to becoming a subject matter expert in a particular field and then applying a sustainability lens to it.
19:40 Megan Saunders
Yes, I completely agree. There are plenty of opportunities available, regardless of your interests.
For example, if you’re interested in fashion or want to learn more about supply chains, gaining experience in those areas can be beneficial when transitioning to a role in sustainability.
Many people are trying to break into this field, but there are various roles that can help you get started on a sustainable career path.
I believe the key is to take something you’re already an expert in or want to become an expert in and look at it through a sustainability lens.
Consider how you can make a positive impact on environmental or social metrics.
If your current organization isn’t focused on sustainability, look for ways to raise awareness and present options. Then, work together with peers to make it happen.
Managing climate risk involves addressing both the physical and human aspects of climate change.
20:38 Louis DeMaso
That’s so important.
You mentioned that climate risk and resilience have been a common theme throughout your career.
Can you provide more details about that?
20:57 Megan Saunders
Given everything happening in the world, climate risk and resilience is obviously at the forefront for many people.
Personally, I’ve had direct experience with major climate events since I’ve lived in various cities that have been affected.
Throughout my career, I’ve moved quite a bit.
I was in New York City during Superstorm Sandy, in Houston a month before Hurricane Harvey hit, in Nashville before an EF3 tornado hit just a block from my house, and recently moved to Florida, a month before Hurricane Ian hit.
21:20 Louis DeMaso
Your timing is impeccable.
21:27 Megan Saunders
Exactly. People joke with me that, wherever I move, extreme weather events happen but the reality is that it’s happening in a lot of places. Or, maybe I’m just lucky. I’m not sure.
Having lived through all of those events has allowed me to see firsthand the impact that climate change can have on communities. I saw people come together to support each other before, during, and after those events, which allowed those communities to thrive and survive.
That’s all to say, we can’t just focus on the physical aspects of climate risk. We must focus on the human aspects as well.
Communities that are able to survive and thrive are those where neighbors know each other, are located in walkable areas, and are more connected.
I am passionate about creating resilient communities, as well as resilient buildings, because I think both are extremely important.
Resilient buildings are designed to better withstand extreme weather events and help people connect with each other.
23:01 Louis DeMaso
That is an incredible story. I can tell how those experiences may have influenced your passion for this industry.
You mentioned resilience, which can be a vague term in some contexts. Could you describe how resilience is applied practically?
23:27 Megan Saunders
Resilience involves identifying opportunities to make assets better equipped to withstand extreme events, as well as regular day-to-day events, such as flooding caused by heavy rainfalls.
We collaborate with our teams to develop a process that allows us to:
- Understand the level of risk for each asset, as the level of risk can vary based on the location and type of asset.
- Identify appropriate resiliency measures.
This includes finding ways to harden the building, such as installing floodgates or improving stormwater drainage for quicker water removal.
We integrate these measures directly into our processes to ensure that they are in place for every property.
We also work with operating partners to ensure that maintenance plans are in place, such as trimming trees to prevent fires from spreading, as well as to develop emergency management plans to address any potential issues.
Our goal is to maintain our operations in a way that ensures our buildings can withstand events while minimizing the impact on tenants.
Environmental resiliency can be integrated into buildings in a variety of ways, such as appropriate siding or roofing to prevent wildfire damage. These measures can protect the building and its inhabitants from potentially damaging events.
25:37 Louis DeMaso
I’m curious about the “people” component you mentioned as well, as it might be a topic that people think about less explicitly when it comes to resilience, climate, and so on.
If you could share any examples or your perspective on this, that would be great.
26:03 Megan Saunders
When I think about developing communities that are truly made for the people who live there, it brings me back to my time planning schools.
It’s important to design buildings and communities where making connections with other people is obvious. Communities with more sidewalks, bike trails, and opportunities to interact with neighbors are essential.
We measure these elements using walk and bike scores across our assets. We also provide social programming and physical spaces for residents to connect. We provide services that help residents continue to thrive.
One way we promote these efforts is by seeking health and wellness certifications for our buildings. Certifications like WELL and Fitwel help us benchmark communities and ensure we have features that promote health and wellness for our residents.
Essentially, we strive to make our buildings and our residents more resilient by focusing on these key features.
27:51 Louis DeMaso
It’s great that certifications exist for evaluating social factors.
I assume they bring some organization to the evaluation process, is that right?
28:10 Megan Saunders
Yes, I agree. Having a checklist of actions that can be taken to make our individual assets healthier, more environmentally friendly, and more socially equitable is helpful.
These certifications also help us celebrate our achievements and share them with our peers and investors to demonstrate our performance.
28:31 Louis DeMaso
It’s personally exciting for me to hear about buildings being designed in this way.
I’ve lived in apartment buildings where I didn’t even get to know my neighbors, which felt isolating. So the concept of designing spaces that connect people and bring them together sounds fantastic to me.
28:50 Megan Saunders
Yeah, definitely.
Find your niche in sustainability and build your brand.
28:53 Louis DeMaso
You mentioned that you earned a Master’s of City Planning and Regional Planning from Rutgers University.
Could you describe how this degree has affected your career and whether it is necessary, important, or recommended for someone interested in pursuing this type of work?
29:20 Megan Saunders
Yeah, getting my master’s degree was important for me at the time because I was just starting out my career. It gave me credibility and an understanding of how the economics of real estate development worked. This provided me with a basic understanding that helped me get a job in green building consulting.
I think anyone can get into sustainability, even if they are just starting their career.
My advice is to find your niche or build your brand.
Being a generalist can be good because sustainability is broad. However, specializing in a sector and building technical skills gives you a path to career growth.
There are quite a few fields to specialize in, so there are many pathways to getting into sustainability.
30:33 Louis DeMaso
It goes back to the idea of becoming a subject matter expert that we were discussing earlier, doesn’t it?
30:39 Megan Saunders
Yes, exactly. From a built environment perspective, my experience as a green building consultant taught me a lot about LEED certification, which I implemented across many buildings.
Studying and obtaining my LEED AP certification was crucial.
I look back on that experience fondly because it gave me a comprehensive understanding of the environmental and social factors that impact a building.
It emphasized the need to make buildings more efficient, use materials that are less impactful to both tenants and the environment, and consider the various components involved.
I recommend obtaining a LEED AP or LEED Green Associate certification as a good starting point for those interested in promoting sustainability in the built environment.
31:50 Louis DeMaso
That’s great advice. For listeners who may be unfamiliar, LEED is spelled L.E.E.D.
Can you describe the certification process? Did you go through any training, and what resulted from it?
32:00 Megan Saunders
LEED stands for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design. It is a certification that allows you to benchmark your building’s high performance and incorporate sustainable features while gaining recognition for doing so.
This can help increase the desirability of a building, especially since more companies have ESG and sustainability goals and prefer to be located in places that reflect their values.
LEED includes multiple categories that cover everything from water efficiency, energy efficiency, and materials, to location, public transit, and connection to the local environment, among other things.
As it examines so many different areas, it provides a balanced pathway for creating environmental and social impact, while also being operationally efficient compared to other buildings.
33:24 Louis DeMaso
That sounds incredible. I love seeing the LEED plaques in modern buildings and knowing that the building was intentionally designed that way.
33:33 Megan Saunders
Yes, exactly. That’s what it’s for.
33:42 Louis DeMaso
I noticed that you also have some GRI certifications. Is that right?
33:50 Megan Saunders
Yes, I do. I studied the GRI system many years ago as part of my role in understanding what drives corporations to set larger sustainability goals and how they report on them.
GRI aims to help organizations understand what is important and report on it, with a focus on auditing those reports. This gave me insight into how our organization assesses, prioritizes, and reports on ESG and related risks.
It provides a baseline for reporting progress in our annual ESG report, as well as guidance for regularly communicating with investors and providing them with updates on our activities.
It’s a tool that helps us understand what is important and how to distill the details we discuss every day into information that investors are looking for in terms of providing returns, operational efficiency of our assets, and creating impact across our portfolio.
Successful sustainability teams have balanced skill sets and prioritize initiatives to make the best use of their resources.
35:17 Louis DeMaso
It’s great to hear that the GRI certification and framework continue to be useful for you.
Based on my experience in the sustainability consulting industry, I believe that GRI and the process of materiality are crucial first steps in building a sustainability program.
Although the term “materiality” may be unfamiliar to many people, it basically refers to prioritization — determining what’s most valuable for the company to focus on first.
35:45 Megan Saunders
Exactly. Materiality involves determining where an organization can have the greatest impact and where it faces the most risk, which depends on the types of assets being evaluated and their global locations.
All these factors are considered when identifying where to focus efforts.
36:10 Louis DeMaso
Because a company can’t focus on everything at once.
36:13 Megan Saunders
That’s right. I wish we could, but we can’t always do that.
36:17 Louis DeMaso
So, being able to choose the most important initiatives and projects to follow is a crucial first step in maximizing the impact of available resources.
36:39 Megan Saunders
I also want to mention that having a team with a balanced skill set is important for successfully driving and implementing measures.
On my team, for example, I have someone who focuses on asset management and day-to-day operations, helping us with reporting and submissions to various sources. For them, understanding how the buildings operate on a daily basis is crucial.
This balances with team members who focus on engineering, design, and construction, spearheading projects and ensuring they’re shepherded throughout the process to implementation.
When building a team, it’s important to have varied skill sets and roles.
37:39 Louis DeMaso
Absolutely. It sounds like you have a good team behind you.
‘Raising her hand’ to participate in external events helps Megan nurture industry relationships and continue developing professionally.
37:42 Louis DeMaso
So, you have participated in numerous public speaking and public engagement events throughout your career, which is impressive.
Could you describe your journey with public speaking and any lessons you have learned in terms of how those engagements go and preparing for them?
38:11 Megan Saunders
Early in my career, I was thrown into opportunities to speak publicly due to the roles I held.
I quickly learned that sharing the story of what your organization is doing and building your brand is a crucial part of sustainability.
I never received any formal training, so my key to success has been to raise my hand and find more opportunities to speak publicly. Practice is the only way to improve.
Speaking publicly has become a regular part of my work because it’s important to share our stories and ways of improving assets with our peers.
Our field is constantly evolving, so it’s crucial to stay informed about new technologies and opportunities to implement them.
Speaking publicly also helps me connect with peers and create relationships while learning more and continuing to develop professionally.
39:36 Louis DeMaso
Absolutely. The ability to connect with people increases the likelihood of serendipitous occurrences where you meet someone who could be helpful or who gets wind of what you’re working on and can support you.
I like your example of raising your hand more often to pursue those types of serendipitous connections.
Could you describe how you’ve raised your hand throughout your career?
40:05 Megan Saunders
I have been offered several opportunities by various organizations to speak. Initially, I used to decline such offers, but now I try to say yes more often.
Even if I don’t feel fully prepared, I use it as an opportunity to force myself to put my notes together, rehearse, and have a friend or a peer listen to what I’m going to say.
The only way to get better at public speaking is by getting out there and doing it.
To transition into a sustainability career, start where you are now while connecting with people doing work you are interested in.
40:55 Louis DeMaso
We have touched on many valuable nuggets for someone interested in entering the green building industry, including what day-to-day work looks like and the types of initiatives you’ll be working on.
This can be inspiring for those looking to pursue this line of work.
Do you have any overarching tips or suggestions for someone who may be listening to this and interested in working in this field, but isn’t quite there yet?
41:33 Megan Saunders
To transition into a role in ESG and sustainability, it’s important to reach out to people in those roles and learn from them.
People are generally willing to share and like to talk about themselves, so ask pointed questions and connect with them on LinkedIn.
Additionally, stay informed on news stories and other resources to gain a better understanding of the context.
If you’re already in a different role and hoping to transition into sustainability, look for opportunities to create an impact within your organization by researching what’s important to the organization and identifying goals that can be set and measured.
Even if your work doesn’t lead to an immediate transition, having the experience to identify opportunities for change and demonstrate results will be valuable to your resume and future opportunities.
42:55 Louis DeMaso
That’s great advice. If you’re already in a certain industry or have knowledge that could potentially influence your company, start from where you are.
You can set a goal or suggest changing a process that could make a difference. It’s a great starting point.
Thank you, Megan, for sharing your time and insights with us today.
Your discussion has provided valuable information that I’m sure many people will appreciate.
Your interesting examples of what you’re working on are also very inspiring!
43:24 Megan Saunders
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it!
