Listen Now
In this episode of the Sustainability Skill Set podcast, I sat down with Stephanie Udler who is a leader at the intersection of public policy and corporate sustainability. After taking her first job fielding calls in a senator’s office, Stephanie spent much of her career supporting the U.S. government’s earliest sustainability programs before transitioning into corporate work. In our conversation, Stephanie describes her current role as a Fractional Sustainability Executive, the tremendous value they inject into organizations, and the relevance of this type of role in today’s business landscape. Stephanie also shares instrumental advice for anyone interested in building a career focused on sustainability and the public policy, underscoring the importance of networking, exploring niches, and making savvy career moves.
Follow Along
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:00:00] Louis DeMaso: Hello and welcome to the Sustainability Skill Set podcast. A show where we explore careers in sustainability and the skills to help you succeed. I’m glad you’re here.
If you are passionate about sustainability and hungry to learn, you’re in the right place.
I’m your host, Louis DeMaso, a sustainability consultant and young sustainability, professional learning right along with you.
In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Stephanie Udler, a fractional sustainability executive with years of public and private sustainability consulting experience under her belt.
What is a fractional sustainability executive? You might ask. I had the same question.
Stephanie and I discussed how fractional sustainability executives jump into a company’s leadership team on a part-time basis, to help them stand up programs and reach goals, without the commitment of hire a full-time employee.
This new type of role is particularly relevant to this sustainability space as so many small to mid-sized companies need guidance on sustainability, but are not ready to take the dive into hiring a full sustainability department.
Stephanie describes how her history and job experiences led her to where she is now, as well as other great networking and sustainability career advice. If you are overwhelmed by where to start with sustainability work, her story will inspire you.
I really enjoyed my conversation with Stephanie, and I think you will too.
Let’s get into it.
Good morning, Stephanie. It’s great to have you on.
[00:01:16] Stephanie Udler: Good morning. Great to be here.
[00:01:18] How fractional sustainability executives make sustainability leadership accessible for companies of all sizes.
[00:01:18] Louis DeMaso: Could you start by describing what a fractional sustainability executive is and what are some of the benefits of hiring one for a small to mid-sized company?
[00:01:26] Stephanie Udler: Sure. So, fractional executives really bring a unique value proposition to the table, an alternative means to leveraging top executive level sustainability talent. There are more and more small to midsize companies in particular that are in the supply chain of large corporations that know sustainability is important, they’re starting to feel the pressure from those companies that they supply to, but they might not have the resources or the know how to stand up a sustainability program. So, a fractional executive comes in, embedded in their leadership team on a part time basis, and helps them to stand up or strengthen their sustainability program.
And then oftentimes will exit 6 months, 12 months later and help them transition to either a full time chief sustainability officer. Or, if they’re not ready for that, help them with continual maintenance. But most important, they’ll really have the tools and the framework in place to continue to flourish.
And I also want to add that it’s not intended to just be a check the box compliance exercise when you bring in a fractional executive. It’s really about helping the company to see that sustainability is not just an add on or a cost center, but it’s actually a competitive advantage. So it’s about embedding sustainability into everything that they do.
I’ll just quickly add a little bit more about the benefits of a fractional executive. oftentimes, companies, as I was alluding to, are not quite ready for a full time chief sustainability officer, and this gives them a great opportunity to bring someone in with a lot of skills, both technical skills and leadership skills, at a lower price point, because there’s no full time salary, there are no benefits and also the vetting time would be less, right? It would take less time to vet and hire someone because it’s not a long term commitment.
In addition, another great thing about fractional executives is that they bring a lot of best practices and lessons learned to the table because they’re working with multiple clients at one time.
[00:03:45] Louis DeMaso: Yeah, that sounds like a big advantage of a fractional executive is that they have a perspective across multiple companies and can bring that to the company that they’re working with.
[00:03:55] Stephanie Udler: Exactly.
[00:03:56] Louis DeMaso: It sounds like it also could be hard for a fractional executive to step in and out of these companies, getting to know the company and understanding the strategy. could you speak a little bit to the challenge there and how a fractional sustainability executive might handle that?
[00:04:10] Stephanie Udler: Sure. Well, a fractional executive is really an expert in navigating the organizational structure of these companies and getting to know the diverse set of stakeholders, et cetera. So, as long as the fractional executive really takes the time to enter the organization, learn the culture, learn from others who have been doing similar sustainability work, they’re usually able to jump right in and hit the ground running.
[00:04:42] Louis DeMaso: And it seems like one of the big objectives is to stand up a culture of sustainability and set the company on a path to where they could hire their own executive or, you know, embed sustainability into their strategy, long-term.
[00:04:58] Stephanie Udler: Exactly. That is the main reason to bring on a fractional executive.
[00:05:03] Louis DeMaso: How did you find out about this? And how did you become interested in this fractional role?
[00:05:08] Stephanie Udler: Sure, well, after I left Meta and I was interested in starting my own business and really focusing on driving impact where it mattered to me, I was doing a lot of networking and I met someone who was a fractional executive in the marketing space, the chief marketing officer. And she was telling me about what it meant to be fractional and a light bulb just went off in my head that this is needed in the sustainability space for so many reasons.
So, that’s when I decided to really pivot and make part of my business focused on this fractional executive work.
[00:05:49] Louis DeMaso: And the other aspect of your business is independent consulting as well, right?
[00:05:53] Stephanie Udler: That’s correct. So, I also serve as an independent consultant for startups, small companies, nonprofits, and midsize companies, focused on strategy policy and stakeholder engagement.
[00:06:07] Louis DeMaso: Could you describe how you got into this whole space in the first place and your kind of career arc?
[00:06:12] Stephanie’s bold method for landing her first job in politics.
[00:06:12] Stephanie Udler: Sure, I’d be happy to. So it will take us back many, many years, to when I was in elementary school. I specifically remember being in 4th grade and there was an environmental module as part of the curriculum and we were learning about recycling and clean water, some basic things, but for some reason it really just stuck with me.
It was something that I really took to heart. And from that point on, I was focused on the environment. I started an environmental club at my school. I wrote book reports on the Amazon rainforest. I was just all in and I didn’t know that it could become a career, but it’s just something that I continue to pursue each step of my life and it turned into a career.
[00:07:07] Louis DeMaso: I’m not sure that it was, communicated to people who are getting into environmental pursuits at that time that it was possible for it to be a career. And nowadays it seems like it’s becoming more and more of an option and there’s more and more demand
[00:07:21] Stephanie Udler: Yes, I agree.
I was always interested in policy and I went to undergrad at Colgate University. And I was lucky enough that they had a degree in environmental geography. And so I decided to double major in environmental geography and political science. And so it was really the perfect combination for me to propel me onto my career path.
[00:07:49] Louis DeMaso: How did you come up with that combination of policy and environmental studies?
[00:07:53] Stephanie Udler: The policy side, was always something I was just interested in, political science, how government worked, that was just a natural interest of mine. And then again, with the sustainability, environmental, interest, it just seemed like the right combination and it was available to me. And so I ran with it.
[00:08:13] Louis DeMaso: That’s awesome. The intersection of policy and environmental pursuits sounds important because so much of what can be done to protect the environment or to guide companies to focus on environmental topics is done at the policy level. Is that right?
[00:08:30] Stephanie Udler: Yes, I really believe that policy is one of the key levers to achieving sustainability and climate goals. So, it’s something that is very near and dear to my heart and something that I’m trying to help all of my clients that I work with, follow through on.
[00:08:51] Louis DeMaso: And you started your career mostly in the policy space, right?
[00:08:54] Stephanie Udler: Yes. so after undergraduate, I worked for Senator Schumer and, I really learned a lot working for Senator Schumer. It was one of the best jobs I had ever, because it was such an exciting place to work. Especially right after undergraduate. And I really learned the importance of policy as well as the role of politics when it comes to sustainability and climate change.
I learned how government works firsthand, learned about the budget process, and how to work in a fast paced environment. Everything in Senator Schumer’s office had to have been done yesterday, right? It was super, super fast paced, but I really enjoyed that. I also learned the importance of promoting yourself, taking chances, and strong performance regardless of the task.
So, some advice that I got when I was looking for a job on Capitol Hill was that you can’t just go and apply the traditional way through the job boards because they get so many applications. So, it was suggested that I go around with my resume in person to any offices that I might have a connection to.
So I went to school in New York. I should go visit all the New York members. I grew up in New Jersey. I should go visit all the New Jersey members, et cetera. So I did that. I wasn’t sure, I was a little nervous about doing that, but I did it. I went around and I asked to speak to Senator Schumer’s office manager.
There I am with my resume in hand. I give it to him and we have a wonderful conversation and then he winds up offering me a position. But the position was to answer phones in the front office. And being a recent graduate from college, I thought that I could do something where I would apply my skills more in environment and political science than answering phones.
So I was torn. I didn’t know what to do, whether I should take the job or not, but I decided to give myself six months. To kind of get grounded and, you know, take the job, do it for six months and, and see where I could go from there. And so I took the job and it was amazing because I got to learn all of the issues, first hand, from being on the phone with all these New Yorkers yelling at you about various topics, et cetera. So that was amazing. But, I also took the initiative to, shadow the person who was the environmental legislative aid for the Senator. And I volunteered to do tasks like write letters to constituents on environmental topics, and I really just dove in and made it clear that that’s what I wanted to do. And so 6 months to the day, almost, that legislative aid happened to leave and I got promoted into that position. So, I think it’s it’s a really good lesson. It’s something that that I didn’t realize going in, but sometimes it is important to take on tasks that that you don’t think might be the right fit. But, if you do them well, then it can turn out beneficial.
[00:12:13] Louis DeMaso: That’s a fantastic story. And it really demonstrates the power of, volunteering and raising your hand to take on opportunities that will lead you to where you want to go.
[00:12:22] Stephanie Udler: Exactly. Exactly. And yeah, so I was at Senator Schumer’s office for, for 3 years. I also had the opportunity to drive him around sometimes,but then I decided it was time to go to graduate school where I received my master’s in public policy, with a concentration in environmental policy, from Columbia University School of International and Public Affairs.
And from there, I went on to work for the government accountability office, where I really learned how to research, write and fact check, and, you know, the government accountability office, not many people know what it is. Are you familiar with it?
[00:12:59] Louis DeMaso: Not so much. No.
[00:13:01] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, so it’s actually, the watchdog agency for the legislative branch, and members of Congress and committees asked the government accountability office to investigate, audit, and write reports on various topics in particular to understand whether policies are working as intended. So, I got to do some reports on environmental issues and some other topics as well.
And another really cool thing is, as part of one of my energy reports that I was working on there, I got to conduct the first greenhouse gas inventory for the legislative branch. So, that was very cool.
[00:13:43] Louis DeMaso: As you were navigating this career trajectory from answering the phones to volunteering for certain environmental initiatives and then reviewing policies, what were the some of the things you were tangibly doing each day and some of the skills you were developing?
[00:13:57] Stephanie’s power-packed sustainability career advice.
[00:13:57] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, so I think that there’s a lot of skill sets that are important for the sustainability field. in particular, critical thinking and problem solving is key. Teamwork and collaboration are also very, very important. Data analysis and strong writing and presentation skills. I also think that, project management and having those organizational skills is important in this field, as well as the ability to really understand and go down into the details, into the weeds, but pick your head up and look at the big picture. And that’s something that I always try to impress upon my teams. It’s very important that we don’t just keep our head down in the work, but we understand how it impacts that bigger picture. so, so those are some of the skills that are, that have been very important to me. I also think that for people going into this field, in addition to those skill sets, It’s beneficial to, have a niche that you also focus on, whether that be energy, technology, AI, policy, even data analytics, each of those areas are very, very big and growing within the sustainability and climate field, and so I would encourage people to not just become a generalist, which is very important and those skills are needed, but also have a niche.
[00:15:33] Louis DeMaso: That’s so helpful. So, as you’re working in this policy space at the beginning of your career, where you would you say you were already developing your specialty in that way? Or were you still kind of working on those generalist skills at that point?
[00:15:46] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, I think both. I didn’t realize, how many tangible skills in the policy field I would gather or learn by working on the hill. But, when I moved from, the Hill and GAO to Booz Allen Hamilton, people sought me out for my knowledge of government and the legislative process and the budget process, et cetera.
So that’s what brought me more from environment into sustainability because I had those skill sets.
[00:16:19] Louis DeMaso: How would you draw the distinction between environment and sustainability in the way you just did?
[00:16:24] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, that’s a good question. So, environment is often about, clean water and clean air and NEPA, et cetera. Where sustainability is more focused on reducing your greenhouse gas emissions and your energy, reducing your water, green procurement, electronic stewardship… they’re all very related but there is a distinction when you’re on the ground doing the work.
[00:16:56] Louis DeMaso: Would you say that environment is more compliance focused and sustainability is more forward looking and strategic?
[00:17:03] Stephanie Udler: Yes, in general, but unfortunately sustainability in a lot of ways is often viewed as compliance as well. but yes, I still think that that’s a, a good distinction to make
[00:17:18] Louis DeMaso: I’m sure that’s one of the hurdles of being a sustainability executive as well in terms of trying to communicate the sustainability is more than just a compliance exercise or something that customers are asking for, but can really add a lot of value to an organization strategy.
[00:17:32] Stephanie Udler: 100%. It could save money, make organizations more efficient… There are lots and lots of benefits of embedding sustainability within your work and your business operations and strategy.
[00:17:45] Going behind the curtain of sustainability programs within the U.S. Federal Government.
[00:17:45] Louis DeMaso: So, once you made that transition from working in policy and public offices to working at Booz Allen Hamilton, which was a significant stint of your career, my understanding is that Booz Allen does a lot of government contracting and that you were focusing on sustainability for them.
Could you describe a little bit about what that role looked like and any kind of progression that happened for your career within that organization?
[00:18:07] Stephanie Udler: Happy to talk about that. So I was at Booz Allen, as you said, for a very long time for 14 years, and I was leading a lot of the sustainability and climate change work. Our primary clients were U. S. federal agencies. So every federal agency, regardless of their mission, had to reduce their energy, water, waste, et cetera, to meet various targets that were provided by executive order and legislation.
And so, we would go in and help these agencies, for their internal operations, stand up their sustainability programs.
Our day-to-Day work could mean. Were a lot of different things. It could be writing internal policies. It could be doing their annual greenhouse gas inventory. It could be running interagency working group meetings, communications, training, doing their annual sustainability plan. There was lots of work to be done, and we focused on all the different areas.
One of the most important things that we had to do was to help these agencies break down the silos that they operated in because, again, sustainability is so multidisciplinary that you can’t have just one group focused on it. It has to be across the agency. So, that’s something that we worked a lot on. and it was a very interesting journey.
And I’ll just say that, when I started doing work in sustainability for the federal government over two decades ago, the agencies would look at us when we come in and they’d be like, what do you want us to do? Why do we have to do this? And we’d be like, well, there’s an executive order that says that you have to do this. Well, where’s the money that comes with this? Well, there is no money that comes with this.
[00:19:56] Louis DeMaso: That seems very reflective of private companies, too. We’re being asked to do this. Who’s funding it? What’s the value driver here?
[00:20:04] Stephanie Udler: Exactly. What happens if we don’t do it? They would say. And then they’d be like, we don’t have the data! So we spent a lot of time working with them on these items. But, over the past 2 decades, the improvement that we’ve seen has been amazing. You now have leadership buy in at these agencies across the country, across the government. They understand the importance of sustainability and how it impacts their mission. And, their data has improved tremendously. They have teams now that work on this. You know, government is slow and there’s still a lot of room for improvement, but to see where they’ve been, and where they are now, is really amazing.
[00:20:51] Louis DeMaso: That sounds incredible. I didn’t realize before talking to you that there was such a focus on setting up sustainability programs within government agencies.
[00:21:00] Stephanie Udler: Yes, government tries to be the example with a lot of this because they have such a big footprint, in their buildings, in their equipment, et cetera. So, they try to lead by example and, you know, it can be challenging because it’s hard to move bureaucracy. but like I said, they have made some great strides.
[00:21:25] Louis DeMaso: Could you describe your role a little bit more in all of this? So as you worked with Booz Allen, what were some of the things that you were specifically contributing to these initiatives to help them develop their sustainability programs?
[00:21:39] Stephanie Udler: Sure. Well, personally, I was overseeing a lot of the work as a program and project manager. And, one of the nice things is that I built teams from across the firm at Booz Allen because, again, coming back to this theme about sustainability being so multidisciplinary. So, if we were writing an internal energy policy, right?
I had my core group of sustainability subject matter experts, but I would also bring people from the energy team to help us with that. or if we were developing a training, you know, we had a whole training team at Booz Allen that could work alongside of us to help us develop these e learning trainings or in person trainings, you know, hands in hand and that really made for high quality deliverables.
Another example of work that we did was we helped an agency to understand the risks of their assets due to increased hurricane events and storms. So we modeled for them using G. I. S. and NOAA Slosh modeling, what it would look like under different scenarios, for their assets.
And so they could see when their assets would be underwater in various scenarios and then we help them figure out, you know, what actions needed to be taken to, to prevent that.
[00:23:13] Louis DeMaso: What were some of the things that you learned during that time? Some of the things you picked up that, you know, enabled you to be successful in those projects?
[00:23:22] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, so I think I, I really learned how to be a consultant. A lot of the skills that I mentioned earlier are consulting skills and they are important things to master when you’re working with stakeholders. And so, you know, I really learned how to interact with clients. How to become a trusted advisor to help them solve really tough problems. That’s why they bring in consultants because there are problems that they can’t solve on their own. I also learned more about the inner workings of government, this time from the executive branch side, because I had been working in the legislative branch, working on the Hill and GAO. And so now I was on the executive branch side and got to learn a little bit more about how they operated. And, you know, really, I just became a sustainability subject matter expert because I was helping these clients work through so many different sustainability issues, at so many different agencies.
[00:24:23] Louis DeMaso: So, to summarize some of the things you mentioned earlier, it comes down to a lot of communication and bringing people together with different stakeholders, data collection and analysis seems like a big part of it to be able to drive those insights that you provide and really being able to tie it all together and communicate or present actionable steps that that a company could take to improve their sustainability is maybe the outcome of what you were working on?
[00:24:47] Stephanie Udler: You got it. You got it. 100 percent right. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
[00:24:52] Stephanie compares working on sustainability in the public vs. private sector, and their surprising similarities.
[00:24:52] Louis DeMaso: So after, after this experience with Booz Allen, you moved to a advisory role at a high level with Meta or formerly Facebook, right?
[00:25:01] Stephanie Udler: That’s correct. That’s correct. I was very interested in seeing how sustainability worked from the inside of a company, and looking at how the private sector worked on sustainability issues. So, I decided to move over to Meta where I was an advisor to the head of sustainability focused on U.S. Federal policy.
[00:25:25] Louis DeMaso: How did you make that transition? How did you summarize or pitch some of the skills that you’d fostered at Booz Allen, that would be then applicable to advising the head of sustainability at Meta?
[00:25:38] Stephanie Udler: I think it’s a lot of again, the skills that I, I mentioned before. Being able to, you know, stand up and manage a sustainability program in the federal government. Federal government agencies are really large organizations just like companies are. So, a lot of the skills that I had acquired were very transferable into the private sector, and I had the sustainability expertise, so it was just a matter of, once I moved, really learning how the private sector, how that particular company, operated. But I had a lot of, I guess, tools in my toolbox to know how to do that from working in the public sector.
[00:26:27] Louis DeMaso: That’s great. Did you notice any major differences between the public sector and the private sector when you made that transition?
[00:26:34] Stephanie Udler: I guess I would say first that there were a lot of similarities, which I was kind of surprised by. But again, I keep coming back to common themes because this is how it works, but, you have diverse stakeholders, you need to work with them, you need to obtain the buy in, and achieve your sustainability goals.
Now, some of the sustainability issues were different. For example, at Meta, we were focused a lot on climate misinformation, which is something that I never even really heard about. And it was not an issue in the federal government with the clients that I was working with. Also, we were very focused at Meta on achieving Net Zero goals.
When I was working with the federal agencies at the time, you know, they weren’t necessarily focused on Net Zero, but they were focused on reducing their greenhouse gas emissions to meet the various targets that they were given. So, it was reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but a different target that we were going after.
[00:27:40] Louis DeMaso: What is climate misinformation?
[00:27:42] Stephanie Udler: So climate misinformation has been coming about on social media platforms where organizations are making statements as if they are truth, but they are not, and they are leading people to believe things like climate change does not exist. or oil, you know, is not detrimental to the climate, things like that.
And so the question is, what can and should social media companies do to prevent this information from being disseminated? And there’s not an easy answer there. So we will get into that topic another time.
[00:28:29] Louis DeMaso: Yeah, that is, that is such a tough topic to tackle. But it sounds like you were able to use pretty much the same consulting skills to be able to help guide the organization, but just focused on the particular challenges and material topics that affect, you know, the private information company that is Meta.
[00:28:50] Stephanie Udler: Exactly. And here my role was primarily focused on policy. So it was using the policy skill sets that I gained way back in my career and continue to use throughout Booz Allen as well. But really bringing those out into the forefront and helping the different lines of business throughout meta understand what policies were in the pipeline related to sustainability and climate, how it could impact their work, and then working with nonprofits and coalitions on the advocacy side external to Meta to help move along some of that policy.
[00:29:31] Louis DeMaso: So, it seems like the fractional sustainability executive move is right in line with the type of work that you’ve been doing all along in terms of picking up the skills needed to guide an organization. You’ve worked in both the public and the private sectors. So, now you have that breadth of experience.
That’s exciting. That is an awesome endeavor now to be able to help multiple companies at once and really spread that impact.
[00:29:53] Stephanie Udler: Thank you. I am very excited about it and yes, that’s exactly why I decided to pivot into that work because I thought that I could use my skill set and really help that diverse set of of clients make a difference.
[00:30:08] Louis DeMaso: Do you have any preference of public versus private work at this point?
[00:30:10] Stephanie Udler: I’m happy to work with either. I think that the fractional executive work lends itself more to the private sector, but there is always work to be done in the public sector as well.
[00:30:21] Louis DeMaso: I’m finding myself surprised at how similar they seem to be in terms of the role that a sustainability executive plays.
[00:30:29] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, I think that there’s a lot of nuances to learn in both of them and it’s great to have, you know. To be able to, and I feel lucky to be able to have had the experience on both sides. But I think that, when you’re working with the federal government, there’s a lot of skill sets that you gain that are applicable to the private sector as well.
[00:30:53] How to map out your entire sustainability career. (Hint: Don’t do it!)
[00:30:53] Louis DeMaso: So, if there’s somebody who is really inspired by this type of work and wants to get into sustainability, whether they are just starting their career or may already be working in a role that’s not sustainability focused, do you have any general advice for how they might pursue, kind of, shifting their focus to sustainability?
[00:31:12] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, so first and foremost, I would say now is the time. We need all the help that we can get. So, please make that transition. And I will also say that you don’t have to have everything planned out. That is something that my career path has taught me.
You don’t have to know what your next step always is. What you do will lead you there. So I wouldn’t worry about mapping out your entire career. I also say the importance of networking is real. Make sure that, if you want to get into this field or transition, that you network. LinkedIn is a great place to start. And don’t be shy to reach out to people. Even if it’s people you haven’t spoken to in a long time, most people are willing to help.
[00:32:06] Louis DeMaso: Could you describe a bit more about your mindset when it comes to networking? I feel like so many people hear that networking is important, but it can be such a daunting topic to try to understand, like, what is networking, what should I actually be doing? And how should I be thinking about this?
[00:32:19] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, it is something that’s hard. And it’s been something that as I’ve been starting my own business, I’ve been focused on a lot this past year. I have reached out to a lot of people, as I said, that I hadn’t spoken to in a while and I just set up meetings with them, one on one, and talked about what I’ve been up to, what I’m looking to do, asking them if they have advice.
And then also, the most important thing or one of the most important things, is to ask them who else you should speak to. And often they then lead you to two or three more people who then lead you to two or three more people. And it’s a domino effect, but, you wind up speaking to a lot of people and either someone’s going to provide you great advice there, help you with something right there, or several months from now, they might think of you in a conversation and ping you again. But I find that most people want to help you.
In addition, I met just such a wonderful network of sustainability leaders across the country and also in D.C., where I live, that I never would have met without going full in on networking. LinkedIn is really a big part of it. The other thing is I’ve joined a few, networking organizations, for senior environmental and sustainability leaders that has also been amazing. But, I guess I would end by just saying people want to help and don’t be afraid to ask.
[00:33:58] Louis DeMaso: I would certainly echo that the people want to help and along the lines of helping another thing that I’ve seen with networking is just that it can be important to look for ways to add value or just ways to add something to the relationship. if you’re working in a role and you’re interacting with somebody else in the industry, or even if you just see something that you like, or that you want to comment on online or in an email, just reaching out to that person, not even asking for a meeting or asking for something, but just say, “Hey, I love what you’re doing.” Or, “hey I can help with that”. Or, “let me volunteer for that”. That just adds goodwill out into the network. And, I think it really comes back to you.
[00:34:40] Stephanie Udler: Yes, that is a wonderful point as well. And, every time that I meet with somebody, I also talk to them about what I might be able to help them with. How can I help them? So, yes, you always need to be thinking about that. And then also keep in mind, if someone speaks to you, you make sure that you open your calendar up and speak to somebody else. Pass it forward.
[00:35:03] Louis DeMaso: And you also mentioned about not having to have your entire career planned out. I think that’s such an important topic because lots of people seem to want to, you know, get into sustainability, but then they’re overwhelmed by, you know, how do I get a sustainability role? What is my end goal? What’s the whole trajectory of this?
Whereas you’re a great example of starting in a role that wasn’t necessarily sustainability-focused. It was just in the arena that you were hoping to learn, and then you’ve shaped it into a sustainability career from there.
[00:35:35] Stephanie Udler: Exactly. I think that is, so important because, in today’s day and age, you know, people will have many jobs. It’s not like when our parents were younger and they had one job their entire career. They worked at the same company their entire career. now people have multiple jobs, multiple careers, so you don’t have to know it all.
Just start in one place, see where it takes you, but keep pursuing your interests. Again, whether that’s in your current job, adjacent to your current job or outside your current job, but those are all ways that you could then eventually get into where you want to be.
[00:36:19] Louis DeMaso: And those interests can shape some of the specialty that you described earlier, right? Building a niche and finding a niche within the space rather than just being a sustainability generalist.
[00:36:28] Stephanie Udler: Yeah, 100%. And there’s, there’s lots of ways to do that by joining different networks, online clubs, et cetera, certificate programs.
[00:36:40] Louis DeMaso: That’s awesome.
[00:36:42] The best thing we can do, as a society, is integrate sustainable thinking into everything we do.
[00:36:42] Louis DeMaso: So, one of the things I like to wrap up with is a question about what we can focus on as a business or as a society to accelerate our transition to a more sustainable world. And that’s because everybody has a different perspective. Everyone’s worked in different realms and worked on different topics.
What’s top of mind for you? What do you think is important for us to focus on now as we try to integrate sustainability into everything we do?
[00:37:05] Stephanie Udler: Yeah. So, as I’ve said throughout our discussion, sustainability is such a multidiscipline area that we need all hands on deck. It’s not just going to take one type of person, one skill set, one area of expertise. It really needs to be a part of every decision that we make in every job. And we need to start educating society about sustainability early on, from my perspective, as early as elementary school, so it becomes ingrained within the ethos of everybody and everything that we do.
[00:37:48] Louis DeMaso: So regardless of somebody’s position right now, whether it’s a salesman in a health care world or. You know, any kind of role that might not be traditionally focused on environmentalism or sustainability, they could integrate sustainability and just sustainability thinking into their role into their company, right?
[00:38:06] Stephanie Udler: They could and they should. Yes.
[00:38:09] Louis DeMaso: Well, Stephanie, it’s been so interesting hearing about your career trajectory and how you took a focus of public policy and really shaped it into a sustainability consulting career, but then also have kept that policy focus. It sounds so interesting and, I’ve learned a lot and I know our listeners will too, hearing from your work in this space.
[00:38:31] Stephanie Udler: Well, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our time together.
[00:38:35] Louis DeMaso: It’s been amazing. I hope everything goes well for you as a Fractional Sustainability Executive and I’m sure that companies will be, learning a lot just as we have.
[00:38:43] Stephanie Udler: Thank you.
[00:38:45] Louis DeMaso: As always. Thanks for listening.
If you have the opportunity to leave this podcast a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, that would really help the show grow.
And I hope you join me next time on the Sustainability Skill Set podcast.
