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In this episode of the Sustainability Skill Set podcast, I sit down with Shea Jameel, Senior Director of Sustainability at Marsh McLennan, to discuss her impressive career journey and the skills she uses to succeed. Shea shares insights on building meaningful relationships, making the business case for sustainability, and driving change within organizations.
Throughout the episode, Shea highlights the importance of strong relationships when implementing sustainability initiatives, regardless of industry. She emphasizes the need for effective communication, project management skills, and the ability to adapt to change. Shea also offers valuable advice on preparing for sustainability interviews, including the importance of storytelling and demonstrating concrete examples of skills and experiences.
We wrap up the episode by weighing the benefits of having either a focused or broad approach to sustainability careers. She encourages individuals to follow their passions and interests while also considering the industry landscape and personal flexibility.
If you’re interested in a career in sustainability or want to enhance your skills in the field, don’t miss this enlightening episode with Shea Jameel on the Sustainability Skill Set podcast. Tune in now to gain valuable insights and actionable advice!
Top Takeaways
#1 – Strong relationships matter when you are trying to drive change.
Shea has focused on relationships throughout her career, which helps her sustainability initiatives succeed. She takes the time and puts in effort to get to know each organization she enters. She treats individuals within each department as key stakeholders, but also as humans, getting to know what they care about and forming a trusting relationship with them.
This approach allows Shea to collect great ideas from her colleagues and learn from their unique perspectives to build her sustainability strategies. She believes that partnership is key to success.
Shea recommends going on a ‘listening tour’ to get to know people. There is no one-size-fits-all approach to building these relationships. You must consider who you’re speaking with and get to know what resonates with them.
Don’t expect it to come quickly or easily. However, when you start building your sustainability strategy and you have to ask for support, you’ll be leaning on the relationships you’ve built, and they will be the key to your success.
#2 – Even if your job title doesn’t include ‘sustainability’ you can look for ways to contribute to your company’s sustainability goals.
If you’re just starting your career, Shea recommends getting a degree in sustainability, or a sustainability-adjacent degree like business, environmental science, or environmental engineering.
However, if you are already in the workforce, you can raise your hand TODAY to start working on sustainability. Shea recommends looking for where sustainability issues intersect with your industry or your company.
If your company has set sustainability goals, ask yourself how you can contribute to those. If you work in operations, you might be able to implement changes that reduce water use or greenhouse gas emissions. If you work in marketing, you might be able to help shape your company’s narrative to focus more on sustainability.
If your company already has a sustainability department or leader, they likely need support. They need ideas from people who see all corners of the organization on how they can make small improvements that contribute to the company’s sustainability goals.
Regardless of where you work, the decisions you make every day can have a meaningful impact.
If your company does not have a sustainability leader or goals, this is a role you could fill. That’s how Shea did it.
Shea transitioned into sustainability from an engineering background by volunteering to help her company respond to sustainability requests, which led to her starting a waste task force.
You can start by simply identifying an improvement that could be made and doing something about it.
#3 – Shea’s approach to building sustainability strategies has been largely the same across multiple industries.
Shea has worked in many industries. I wanted to know whether each industry required a tailored approach to sustainability.
To my surprise, Shea said that she’s used mostly the same approach any time she is building a sustainability strategy, regardless of the industry!
First, she identifies the most impactful areas to focus on. This often involves a ‘materiality assessment’. At this stage, she speaks with everyone who is impacted by the business to determine what they care about. She might speak with customers, employees, shareholders, and leaders of local communities.
Second, she figures out how to ‘move the needle’ by making meaningful improvements. The most important part here is taking ACTION. This step requires her to make the business case for investments in sustainability.
And that’s it!
Now, this is an oversimplification of the difficulties that go into leading successful sustainability initiatives, but it’s a great reminder that the core elements of ‘sustainability work’ come down to identifying the most impactful areas and then taking action to improve organizations.
#4 – Become a generalist or a specialist… it’s your choice!
Shea has seen that a board approach, or a focused approach, can work for sustainability careers.
If you have broad experience in multiple industries or functions, you can pose that as a strength during interviews. Your perspective across industries and functions means that you can understand a business more wholistically and can relate to more people. This is an asset, especially for sustainability professionals who often need to wear multiple hats.
If you’ve developed more focused experience in your career, you can leverage that deep subject matter expertise. Shea reminds us that there is often crossover between non-’sustainability’ careers sustainability-focused roles. For example, if you work in finance or accounting, then your past experience lends itself well to a new role called ‘ESG controller’ which focuses on ESG reporting and disclosure. In this case, you may benefit from highlighting your experience with SEC reporting and company processes/controls.
#5 – Prepare for interviews like you would prepare for an exam in school.
Shea recommends preparing for interviews like you would prepare for an exam. She described how she her friends and family would perform mock interviews to help her practice responding to random questions while remaining confident and tying in her experience.
Another great tip: When discussing your skills during an interview, it is important to tell stories of times where you demonstrated those skills to prove to the interviewer that you know what you’re talking about.
Shea highlighted a few skills that she thinks are most important for sustainability interviews, including communication, project management, and adapting to change. Remember, you can make claims about ‘soft’ skills such as adaptability more tangible by telling a story of a time where you had to completely change the plan, but you succeeded regardless.
Finally, Shea suggested doing some homework on the company you are interviewing with. Get to know any sustainability materials they have published and weave your understanding of the company’s strategy into your responses.
Read the Transcript
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:00:00] Louis DeMaso: Hello and welcome to the Sustainability Skill Set podcast. A show where we explore careers in sustainability and the skills to help you succeed. I’m glad you’re here.
If you are passionate about sustainability and hungry to learn, you’re in the right place. I’m your host, Louis DeMaso, a sustainability consultant and young sustainability, professional learning right along with you.
Today I am honored to be joined by Shea Jameel. A sustainability leader with a track record of developing and implementing sustainability strategies for large multinational organizations. Shay is currently serving as senior director of sustainability at Marsh McLennan, a professional services firm that advises clients on a risk, insurance and corporate strategy.
She started her career as an environmental engineer, but has now gained experience across an impressive array of industries, including health and consumer packaged goods, real estate, hospitality, and chemical manufacturing.
In this episode, we dove into Shea’s career journey. She shared the story of how she transitioned into sustainability work from a background in engineering. She described the surprising similarities in sustainability strategies across industries and how to gain support for sustainability initiatives, using a relationship based approach.
Finally, she shared her practical strategies for interview preparation and the quality she looks for in sustainability job candidates. I think you’ll really enjoy hearing about the skills and strategies that have helped you become a leader in the field.
If you’re enjoying the podcast, I would so appreciate if you could take just a moment to leave her a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. This would really help the show grow and reach a larger audience.
I’m glad to have you here with me. Let’s dive in.
Hi Shea, it’s great to have you on.
[00:01:34] Shea Jameel: Hi, thanks for having me.
[00:01:37] Shea’s daily work involves engaging with stakeholders and measuring data to meet their ESG goals.
[00:01:37] Louis DeMaso: So, could you describe a little bit about your day to day work life at Marsh McLennan?
[00:01:42] Shea Jameel: Yeah, what I really love about working in sustainability is that there’s no typical day to day.
Every day is a little different and it ranges from, one day, I might be diving deep into greenhouse gas emissions data. The next day, I might be thinking about how we can engage our colleagues and our efforts around sustainability.
So that’s been the really fun part of Marsh McLennan, and sustainability in general. But if I had to describe what a typical day looks like, I would say that there’s a lot of stakeholder engagement when you’re trying to embed sustainability across an organization.
You really have to engage key stakeholders across the company, and get them really bought in and on board with the vision.
And then there’s a lot of data. You know what they say: you can’t manage what you don’t measure. And then really using data to sell this vision
There’s always something that comes up. So, you know, staying flexible. Like, I can count many times that I thought my day would go one way and then it went a totally different way because something came up.
[00:02:56] Louis DeMaso: That makes a lot of sense. Measuring data to be able to make those decisions seems like a fundamental part of what you do, so could you describe a little bit about what, what you’re trying to achieve in this role and, how you get there?
[00:03:10] Shea Jameel: Yeah. So, in my role, I oversee sustainability and ESG. So, that’s the external reporting. And then the organization, made some climate commitments. So, how do we actually get there and meet these 50 percent reduction by 2030 and net zero by 2050?
So, if you think about both of those pieces, one reporting to our stakeholders and then to driving progress against our climate commitments, that all involves a lot of data, understanding what your baseline is, and then where your opportunities are.
So, I’m really excited to be able tohelp deliver against these goals, both from the external reporting standpoint and from reducing our emissions.
[00:03:58] Louis DeMaso: And it sounds like, through engaging with those stakeholders, you can identify some of those opportunities to make reductions and try to get some of those projects rolling, right?
[00:04:08] Shea Jameel: Exactly. Yeah. So one of the most humbling things for me as I’ve been on my sustainability journey, and at Marsh McLennan, is how much knowledge there is across the institution and how many great ideas colleagues have about how we really meet these goals. I found it to be so important in really engaging your stakeholders and getting to know their ideas because who knows their area better than them?
Anyone from the property manager to the head of purchasing… they can really give you insights into where there’s some good areas to work against your goals.
And I think partnership is really the key to success as you think about driving progress in sustainability and against your corporate goals.
[00:04:57] Go on a ‘listening tour’. Relationships are the foundation Shea’s work.
[00:04:57] Louis DeMaso: How do you approach building those partnerships with these different stakeholders throughout the organization? Because I’m sure they all have different goals themselves and different personalities . It must be a bit hard to manage.
[00:05:07] Shea Jameel: Yeah, I think really, coming from a place of empathy and then thinking about who you’re speaking with and knowing what motivates them.
So, I encourage anyone, when they’re working in sustainability, to go on a listening tour. Really get to know what motivates and drives your stakeholders.
And then, use that, in kind of trying to solve shared targets and aspirations.
You know, it’s pretty unique. I would say there’s not necessarily a one size approach you can take for everyone, but I think knowing who you’re speaking with and what resonates with them.
So, for example, if you’re working with, your head of finance, really focusing on: what’s the savings, what’s the financial benefit? If you’re working with your operations teams: how is this initiative going to streamline their operations? And that shows, one that you’re listening, and then, you know, you are really being a partner. You’re not just coming in and giving yet another item on the to do list.
And then it also, you know, shows that you have, really great intuition for what drives the business.
[00:06:26] Louis DeMaso: I can tell you put a lot of thought into these relationships and I’m sure it, shows in the, in the outcomes that you are able to drive.
[00:06:33] Shea Jameel: Yeah, I think so much of sustainability is relationship based. I think we all want to move our organizations to be more sustainable. We all want to reduce emissions, reduce waste, but we all have so much on our plate.
So, I think having those solid relationships and really kind of working together, I find, has been what’s driven a lot of success in my career.
Since, at the end of the day, we’re all people and so much of this work is really leaning into those motivations.
[00:07:10] Louis DeMaso: That’s great.
Is that people management and building those relationships with stakeholders, one of the biggest challenges or things that you’re working on in your role, or are there other big challenges you face?
[00:07:22] Shea Jameel: I wouldn’t call this a challenge, but just getting to know a new company always takes time.
So, I would say I’ve been spending a lot of time really getting to know the organization and understanding, who are the right stakeholders? Which has been a lot of fun. It’s always, like, a fun part of the job. You learn so much when you do this. But, I do think, you know, it’s important to take the time to be able to do that.
When you’re new to an organization, or a role, or even if you’ve been in your role for a while, there’s always someone new out there. and it’s important for, you know, you to really get to know your organization.
[00:07:59] Louis DeMaso: It sounds like building those relationships is actually one of your favorite parts about the role. Is that right?
[00:08:03] Shea Jameel: It definitely is something that I enjoy. There’s so much I enjoy about sustainability. but I really do like the people centered element of it.
It’s a nice way to kind of be creative and then attack, or approach these challenges that we’re all trying to address in a really innovative way. I think the cool thing about sustainability is it’s always changing and then being able to lean into strengths and, you know, everyone has their own strengths and being able to lean into each of these strenghts can only enhance your success.
[00:08:43] Louis DeMaso: What would you say are some of your greatest strengths that make you good at what you do?
[00:08:49] Shea Jameel: I definitely pride myself on this relationship based approach I’ve taken in sustainability.
If you think about what it takes to get an organization to move to be more sustainable, it’s a really complex problem.
Organizations are really complicated organisms with lots of moving parts, and everyone has so many priorities and goals. And now there’s one more priority and goal, you know, that might be in competition.
But, if you build the work on a solid foundation where, people enjoy working with you, where they see the big picture, they understand the value, that really helps move that up in their own priority list. And again, it helps you come together and come up with some innovative solutions.
When I first went into this field, I definitely didn’t anticipate it would involve so much of this. I like to say, you’re selling your ideas to your colleagues.
The other thing I’ll say, you know, I started my career, and my training as an engineer. So having that solid foundation in data is something that I think has helped me, even though I’m not as in the weeds in data as I used to be when I was early career.
Being able to lean back on the data piece, is something that’s really helped me throughout my career, and I’ve always had an interest in finance. Personal finance is one of my hobbies, so I found that being able to speak that language can help me win over some skeptics who might think that sustainability is too expensive, or there’s not necessarily a short term benefit.
So, being able to really lean into my interest in finance as well.
[00:10:41] Speaking the language of finance and business is key.
[00:10:41] Louis DeMaso: Could you dig into that a little bit more and describe about how data or even finances are used in promoting your initiatives and getting things done in sustainability?
[00:10:50] Shea Jameel: Yeah, so, I had a couple experiences where I learned quickly that if I wanted to get the buy in of a key decision maker, I shouldn’t lead with the environmental benefit.
I mean, they care about the environmental benefit, but I learned quickly that the savings are what would peak their interest. So, there I was able to use data with, you know, partners, like, this was a shared effort, and identify, areas of investment that would lead to savings and then be able to quantify that using an ROI.
So, being able to really use data to uncover where there’s some quick wins and then telling that story, leaning on what are cost savings and operational savings, and then the environmental savings or the cherry on top.
I had that experience pretty early in my career and that really kind of shaped me as I moved forward and found that, you know, for some audiences, that’s the way to go.
[00:12:02] Louis DeMaso: I had a very similar experience, coming to understand that making the business case for sustainability and environmental initiatives is so important I had studied environmental science and had been thinking a lot about sustainability. And, when I got into the, to the business world, to the workforce, I realized that, you know, those things are important and most people care about them but, you can’t make progress on addressing a lot of those things without it, it making sense for the business too, right?
Like the, the financials have to work out for it to be something to pursue as a business.
So, you know, making the environmental case, but also making the business case, looking for those cost savings, looking for those benefits to marketing and sales and things like that, that was, that was one of the big things that I had to learn and pick up was the business side of things.
[00:12:50] Shea Jameel: Yeah, I, um, you know, have a similar background in science, engineering, and this is definitely not something they teach you in school.
And you’re right, you know, in the end of the day, the business case really is so important, and being able to learn how to make an effective business case, I think, is, uh, something that can really help sustainability professionals move the needle.
[00:13:13] Louis DeMaso: Absolutely. And it doesn’t even have to be something that disillusions you to say, like, people don’t care about the environment or anything like that, but it’s just that even if you care, you can’t move forward with an initiative if it’s going to wind up costing the business so much that it’s going to bankrupt the business or just, you know, you have to be able to chart a clear financial path forward to be able to make progress on these things as well.
Right?
[00:13:35] Shea Jameel: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:13:38] Shea’s path from engineer to director of sustainability. The power of raising your hand and offering to help.
[00:13:38] Louis DeMaso: So, I know you described your engineering background, and, I thought it was really interesting how you moved from an environmental engineer into a sustainability analyst, and then now into directory level sustainability positions in your career.
Could you describe a little bit about that trajectory?
[00:13:53] Shea Jameel: So when I was, you know, pursuing my education, I didn’t even know that corporate sustainability is a job you could do. But, I knew that I’ve always loved math and science and the environment.
Environmental engineering, really seemed like it checked all the boxes and in my education, we got exposed to a lot of sustainability topics.
I remember one of my favorite classes was intro to green buildings, but it was, you know, really quite engineering focus.
When I graduated, it made a lot of sense to go into the workforce as an environmental engineer. where I did a short stint as a regulator, and then I moved over to a chemical company where I was responsible for managing their environmental compliance.
Which was great, you know, I got to work in the field I studied in. It was a great job. I learned a lot. But, I felt that it didn’t really allow me to be creative. When you’re doing compliance, there’s the rule, and then there’s what you need to do to meet the rule, and then show that you’ve met the rule.
So, I was really hungry for some creativity and outside the box thinking.
And, it just so happens that my company at the time started getting a lot of questions about sustainability from their customers. And, me being an enterprise young professional raised my hand and said I’d like to take this on yeah let me see what I can do here. And then that led to some other opportunities.
I remember developing a waste reduction task force, identifying ways to reduce process waste. And I felt like, this is really fun. I’d love to do this full time. So that’s how I got started.
And then I was really open to different opportunities. So I was open to moving. I was open to a variety of industries, which is how I transitioned from being an environmental engineer now into a senior level sustainability position.
[00:16:05] Louis DeMaso: That story of raising your hand is so impactful in terms of the lesson related to: people can work on sustainability right where they’re at.
If their company is working on sustainability initiatives, usually they will be under resourced and the sustainability professionals in your organization would love help.
So, if you can find the capacity in your job to pick up that torch and just help out where you can. That sounds really important, right?
[00:16:33] Shea Jameel: That’s so important, I’m a huge believer that every job is a sustainability job.
You hit the nail on the head. Sustainability teams are really lean and mighty teams and there’s so much work to be done.
If you think of the types of challenges we’re trying to solve, we need all hands on deck.
So, if you’re interested in sustainability, I really, you know, encourage folks to look for where there’s opportunities to share your ideas, raise your hands, and really don’t feel like you need to have sustainability in your title.
We need everyone working on sustainability to be able to move the needle and get to where we need to be.
[00:17:15] Shea describes a common approach to sustainability across industries.
[00:17:15] Louis DeMaso: That’s really inspiring. So you mentioned that you had gotten experience across multiple industries, and that certainly is reflected on your resume.
How do you draw on some of that in your current role in terms of the exposure to different types of companies and different types of supply chains?
[00:17:31] Shea Jameel: What I learned working across many different industries is while the details vary, the approach is largely the same. If you think about how to approach sustainability, it can be at a smaller company, a fortune 500, it can be, you know, across industries.
You’re asking, what are the most material areas? How can we impact, make an impact, on these areas? What’s the business case? And then, how do we take action? The details vary, but it doesn’t matter what type of company you’re in. The approach is largely similar. I’ve done this at many different companies and I can come at it from a different way of thinking and maybe apply something I’ve learned in one industry to this other industry throughout my career. And I have been able to do that. I worked in the financial sector, and that is really where I got my 101 course on how to build a business case. I then took that to future roles.
And now in this role, I’ve built on everything I’ve learned of, you know, how do you get your organization on board? How do you find opportunities? What’s the right way to approach disclosures as I think about what I want to achieve here?
Could you describe materiality a little bit and how that plays into that first step of the process that you mentioned? Yeah, and it’s very timely since I’m sure that the, the listeners are hearing a lot about double materiality. So, I’ll describe materiality and then touch on double materiality also.
So, it’s this idea that there’s impacts that a company has on society, different stakeholders.
So, if you think of what materiality means, some of the questions are like, who are your stakeholders? Depending on what your company is, that can range to your communities, your employees, your suppliers.
And then, for a range of ESG and sustainability topics like climate, water, waste, thinking about, how you impact those different topics.
So, if you’re a large manufacturer, your materiality assessment would take a look at, you know, what are your impacts like in your communities or in your supply base? And then that’s called impact materiality. So that’s looking at how an organization impacts the outside. The other lens, which is where double materiality comes in, it’s financial materiality.
So, how do these topics, these ESG topics, like climate change, diversity, how do they impact the business? And then, which of these topics may have a financial impact?
The new, way of approaching materiality is looking at both. So not only how does the company have an impact outside, but are there financial impacts as well? Which has really been driven through the European Union.
And, you know, by going through this exercise, it really allows organizations to focus on: what are the top priorities?
If you think of sustainability, it’s an alphabet soup and there’s new acronyms coming out every day. You can start feeling like you’re trying to boil the ocean, but using this type of assessment can really help you hone in on: what are the really key priority areas for you to focus your efforts on as an organization?
[00:21:02] Louis DeMaso: So it sounds like you use materiality assessments to determine the priorities that you’ll focus on with your team. Right? Because you can’t do everything at once.
[00:21:10] Shea Jameel: Exactly. Yeah. So, we’re undergoing that process now, and I’m really excited to be able to, you know, see the outcome and use that as a roadmap as I think of, like, what are the future plans and strategies?
[00:21:28] Louis DeMaso: And, I believe action was the third step you mentioned in the process in terms of the sustainability journey that any industry or company within it faces.
You do the materiality assessment, you engage with stakeholders, you collect the data, but it all leads to trying to actually implement projects that’ll move the needle on sustainability, right?
[00:21:48] Shea Jameel: Exactly. And that’s where it all comes back to the relationships.
So, you mentioned this earlier, sustainability teams are lean and mighty.We, you know, aren’t the ones that will be implementing all of the different projects. But what we can do and what I see our role as, as this field evolves, is identifying those material topics, developing that strategy, identifying the levers, and then working with the business, you know, these stakeholders that you’ve built all these great relationships with, to build an action plan, whether that’s budgets, whether that’s like phasing, whether that’s, you know, even identifying the projects or the partners, to then start to execute.
[00:22:38] Louis DeMaso: That’s really interesting and I love that you’ve pointed out that the sustainability method, in terms of driving change within an organization, is pretty consistent across different industries. And it’s something that somebody who’s only worked in one industry might not have the perspective on.
But since you’ve worked across so many, you can clearly see that.
[00:22:56] Shea Jameel: Yeah, I think it’s been a learning for me as well as I’ve grown in my career, that every time I’ve hit a new industry, the approach was largely similar.
And I think it goes back to, at the end of the day, all of these organizations are run by people, and we kind of tick in the same ways, if that makes sense.
[00:23:17] Shea’s advice for getting into a sustainability career.
[00:23:17] Louis DeMaso: So if somebody is, passionate about sustainability and hearing this and excited about trying to do this type of work, how would you recommend they get started in terms of getting into a career in sustainability?
What kinds of skills might they want to develop or what kinds of approaches might be best?
[00:23:34] Shea Jameel: Yeah, so I think if, it’s someone who is just getting ready to go to school, my advice would be: you can take two paths.
Now, when I was in college, there wasn’t really a business or sustainability degree. Most people either studied business or environmental science or environmental engineering, and that kind of led to sustainability.
Now, you’re starting to see sustainability or sustainable business degrees. So that’s one approach.
That way, you know, you have the benefit of being trained through your education and getting exposed to a lot of these topics, but that’s not the only way.
Another way is, again, raising your hands at your company.Take a look at your company’s sustainability report. A lot of companies publish sustainability reports where they outline what their goals are, their priorities.
I’m sure you’ll be surprised that there’s quite a few of them that your day to day work is involved in. Like, I think everyone is involved in greenhouse gas emissions reductions.
Really get to know what’s in that report and what those priorities are and then raise your hand for projects or think about ideas that you have, and reach out to that sustainability team.
I think the other thing that I’ve recently done is I’ve joined my local community’s Sustainability Advisory Council, which has been an eye opening experience to kind of look at it from the government side and the public policy and sector side.
Look to see if there’s any volunteer opportunities, maybe your local municipalities or your cities have councils there’s a lot of these. So, that’s another nice way to get exposed to these topics as well.
[00:25:26] Louis DeMaso: I think that’s such a great recommendation that you raised: to look for where sustainability goals from your company interact with your corner of the company, with your role. It’s great because in our, in our last episode, we talked about a very similar thing, but for industries, you know, if you’re trying to figure out, if you work in healthcare, and how climate change intersects, or how you might be able to transition into sustainability, you know, look for where climate change or sustainability challenges will impact your industry, but it can work within a company too.
If the company has a climate goal, such as net zero or a waste reduction goal or a water goal or something, you can look for where those goals interact with your role and how you can have a impact on helping the company meet them, right?
[00:26:08] Shea Jameel: Exactly, yeah. And, I mean, if we think of the, kind of, scale of what we need to achieve, we all play a role. It’s really, kind of, getting creative and thinking about, like, where your strengths are and how you can really, move the needle. And everyone can, you know, everyone plays a role in moving the needle. We all have strengths, in kind of reducing our impacts.
[00:26:36] Louis DeMaso: Yeah. And what better way to get the attention of the sustainability department or lead at your company that raising your hand and suggesting projects that helps them achieve their job, right?
[00:26:46] Shea Jameel: Exactly. I have quite a few friends that, you know, got started in sustainability doing exactly that. I, like, have been quite fortunate in that I’ve always sat on the sustainability team or had sustainability in my title, but throughout all my experiences, I’ve met so many people that did raise their hands, to work on a project and then were able to use that experience to then parlay it into, you know, a full time role.
[00:27:15] Louis DeMaso: And if there isn’t already a sustainability department or lead at your company, then that’s the position to fill. Right?
[00:27:21] Shea Jameel: Exactly.
[00:27:22] Louis DeMaso: And maybe nobody is pulling it forward, and you could be the one to set goals or help the company reach goals, or… At that point, it really comes back to making the business case again. Right? It’s like, why is this important? Why is this something that companies should be focusing on? And they’re not right now.
[00:27:37] Shea Jameel: It comes full circle to that business case and materiality assessment.
[00:27:42] What skills would Shea be looking for when hiring for a sustainability position?
[00:27:42] Louis DeMaso: I love it. That’s, that’s fantastic. So we’ve touched on some things like stakeholder engagement and building relationships and more technical specific skills like performing a materiality assessment, but, what would you say are some of the most important skills for somebody who might be trying to get into the field of sustainability?
And, one way to think about this might be, if you were looking to hire somebody to help you, what would you be looking for?
[00:28:06] Shea Jameel: That’s a really good question. And it’s one that I get asked a lot too as well. So I say, in addition to that technical piece, having, you know, subject matter expertise on this topic. The other things I look for are: are you an effective communicator?
So much of this work is, getting your organization on board with your vision. and you really have to be able to communicate what that is in an effective manner. So I think that’s so important. Being a good project manager is really important as well. If you think of how you go from identification, planning, to implementation, that’s project management.
Other skills I look for are being flexible. Sustainability is changing every day. Some days I expect my day to go one way and it goes totally different. So, really being able to be flexible and pivot as needed is another good skill that I look for.
And then, I say, having a positive attitude, and being able to persevere. So, it sounds almost like silly to say that, but sustainability is a journey. I mean, if you think about what it takes to reduce emissions, get to net zero. This is one step at a time. and it really is a journey. So being able to think of what the big picture is while working on your day to day is so important.
[00:29:40] Actionable steps to prepare you for your next sustainability interview.
[00:29:40] Louis DeMaso: And so some people who are jumping into interviews might be wondering how they can show that they’re a good communicator, how they can show that they’re flexible, and my thought would be just try to tell stories and give examples and really demonstrate situations in your past where you’ve displayed those characteristics.
But, would you agree with that? Would you say that there’s some other good way to show in an interview and convey that you have the skills that you’re looking for?
[00:30:07] Shea Jameel: I definitely think what you said hit the nail on the head.
So, give examples, and it doesn’t have to be a sustainability example. It can be an example from your life. I think it’s called behavioral interviewing. So we all hate answering these questions like: about tell me about a time where you were you overcame a challenge, but they really are valuable questions and how you answer such a question and showing how you approach the challenging situation is really insightful.
So I think, really having examples is useful and then same with communication, in an interview, like, can you really effectively communicate your motivations, I think is so key and being able to hear how you address, questions or, you know, your approach that you take is really important.
[00:30:59] Louis DeMaso: So, after listening to this episode, people can go and think of a story where they were a good communicator and try to get that down and rehearse that.
They could think of a time when they, when they’ve managed a project and maybe achieved an outcome that was impactful and get that down.
And, maybe a time when they were flexible or had to adapt to a new situation.
if they can bring those three stories and examples to an interview, maybe they’d be better prepared for that sustainability interview. Right?
[00:31:28] Shea Jameel: Yeah, I think that’s right. and I think what I did in my earlier career is I would practice interviewing. My, um, husband who wasn’t my husband at the time, he would just ask me interview questions, like, off the wall ones, like, I think he’s definitely asked me some of these Google questions:
If you get shrunk into the size of a penny, how do you jump out of it…
and, the point of that was because you never know what you’re going to be asked, but, you know, you don’t want to look caught off guard. So I recommend doing interview prep. Find a friend or someone that you feel comfortable with and really kind of think about like how you can build confidence.
So much of it is confidence as well. Building that confidence in yourself is the other piece of advice I’d give in interviewing.
And then, like, being prepared to handle questions that you didn’t expect and then thinking about those good situational examples, because anyone can say that, yeah, they’re good at adapting. But then, if you can’t give me a good example of a time you’ve adapted, it’s hard for me to believe. Are you really good at adapting?
[00:32:46] Louis DeMaso: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, that’s really helpful and actionable for people who are looking, because I know that sustainability interviews can be, a challenge and tough to prepare for.
[00:32:56] Shea Jameel: And, I think, of course, read the company’s sustainability report. So, if you’re interviewing for a company, definitely really understand what their priorities are.
Get to know the company outside of sustainability, you know, it all comes back to the business case, like, where is their business going?
And really think about like, you know, what, what really impressed you about the company? is there any advice you might offer? I’ve been asked that in interviews before.
What would you improve in our disclosure? You know, it’s always a sensitive topic, but what they’re looking for is have you read the disclosure? Do you have knowledge of kind of what best practices are?
Doing your homework, is what I would say, like treat an interview like you would treat an exam and put some time into doing that research and that prep.
[00:33:48] Should you focus on developing focused or broad experience in your sustainability career?
[00:33:48] Louis DeMaso: That’s great. I could really see how that would help you stand out. So, I’d like to explore one more topic we talked earlier about your breadth of experience across many industries and how that’s a strength in your current role. I wonder also if focused attention to a particular industry throughout your career gives you an advantage because you really know that industry well.
Could you speak to that trade off? Would you recommend people get more of a breadth across industries or focus on a particular industry? Or is there any reason why you’d choose one or the other?
[00:34:19] Shea Jameel: You know, that’s a really good question and I think there’s benefits to both. So having really focused attention in one industry is one way to grow your sustainability career for sure. And the benefit is you become a really deep expert and thought leader in that space. You start to build a reputation, you know, industries tend to be really small so you get to meet the key players, and that’s one way to grow.
I would say, depending on your industry, that might lock you to a certain geography. So let’s say you pick, I don’t know, tech, a lot of those jobs are in California, which is fine, California is a great place to live, but it’s something that is a personal question. That’s not to say that you can’t pivot. You can definitely pivot.
Um, the breadth approach is also another approach, and it, I think just comes down to personal preference. So there, you might not gain the same really deep intimate knowledge of one vertical, but you get to see lots of different industries and we know that sustainability is always changing and every industry needs to play its part. and it does provide a bit more flexibility depending on your own personal situation. So, let’s say you’re maybe more open to moving or you have some personal reason, that you need to maybe make a move being open to different industries provides you that personal flexibility.
[00:35:52] Louis DeMaso: So it sounds like if you want to look back at your career and you’re trying to transition into a sustainability role, then you might think about whether or not you have a breadth of experience across many different industries or roles.
If you’ve kind of jumped around between different types of positions and things, then you can describe how your experience across those roles is a strength because you can understand kind of the way different parts of a company think.
But, if you have more focused attention in your career. You’ve had the same types of roles over and over, then, you can try to describe how you’ve curated this deep understanding of a particular industry or a particular company or a particular role within a company. Would you say that’s a fair approach?
[00:36:33] Shea Jameel: I think that’s definitely a fair approach. And I also think it’s good to, highlight your journey and your strengths, but I also wouldn’t let yourself get too hung up on that. Kind of build on, if you’re making a transition, where there’s overlaps like there’s so many now, um, we’re seeing, you know, a lot more reporting standards come out as an example and reporting is moving from voluntary to regulatory. There’s such a great opportunity for accountants and controllers to now explore a career in being an ESG controller and here, being able to lean heavily on your experience with SEC reporting or process and controls, is a really nice way to differentiate yourself in that type of job.
You know, there’s so much need and opportunity in decarbonizing supply chains and having more sustainable supply chains. If you have a deep knowledge of purchasing and strategies and how to build these supplier relationships really emphasize that if you’re looking for a supplier sustainability role.
[00:37:49] Louis DeMaso: I really like that advice. That’s wonderful.
Well, Shea, thank you so, so much for your time today and for sharing all of your insights. there’s been a lot of really actionable steps that, have come out of this episode and, I know I have learned a lot and I’ve enjoyed speaking with you.
[00:38:05] Shea Jameel: Yeah, thank you for the time and happy Halloween.
[00:38:08] Louis DeMaso: Happy Halloween.
For those listening, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you have a moment to rate and review this podcast, wherever you are listening, that would mean so much to me, and would really help the show grow.
I hope you join me next time for the sustainability skillset podcast.