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In this episode of the Sustainability Skill Set podcast, host Louis DeMaso sits down with Rachel Lawton, a freelance copywriter who helps climate-conscious companies tell their stories. Rachel shares her insights on the importance of messaging in sustainability, the transferable skills she utilizes in her work, and the power of simplifying complex ideas. She also discusses her journey into freelance writing and offers advice for aspiring climate writers. Tune in to this engaging conversation to gain valuable tips for effective communication in the sustainability sector and to learn how you can make a difference through your writing.
Listen to this episode to discover:
- The difference between being a writer and being a messenger in sustainability.
- How transferable skills can be leveraged in content creation.
- Strategies for simplifying sustainability jargon and making it more digestible.
- Rachel’s personal journey into freelance writing for climate-conscious companies
- Advice for those looking to pursue a career in climate writing or freelancing.
Connect with Rachel and learn more:
- Check out her website to learn more about the great work she does.
- Follow her on LinkedIn or Instagram to learn more about sustainability communication and copywriting.
If you’re passionate about sustainability and want to learn how to effectively communicate your message, this episode is for you.
Read the Transcript
[00:00:00] Louis DeMaso: Hello and welcome to the sustainability skillset podcast. A show where we explore careers in sustainability and the skills to help you succeed. I’m glad you’re here.
If you are passionate about sustainability and hungry to learn, you’re in the right place. I’m your host Louis DeMaso. A sustainability consultant and young sustainability, professional learning right along with you.
Today I had the pleasure of chatting with Rachel Lawton of remarkable freelance copywriter and sustainability communications expert, who is passionate about helping climate conscious companies tell their stories.
During our interview, Rachel shared invaluable insights in the power of messaging and sustainability and how her role goes beyond just being a writer. She emphasized the importance of understanding of the industry challenges faced by these companies and how she simplifies their message to amplify their voice.
One thing that really stood out to me was Rachel’s description of messaging versus merely writing. She believes that through effective messaging brands can engage their audience, build trust, and drive behavior change.
We also delved into Rachel’s journey as a freelancer, her day-to-day work life and the skill she utilizes to thrive in her role. She discussed the transferable skills. She gained from her background in education and how she applies them to content creation.
If you are passionate about sustainability and looking to effectively communicate your message, this episode is a must listen. Rachel shared so many practical tips for improving your communication no matter what area of the company you’re working in.
Join me in this conversation. As we explore the world of sustainability writing the importance of impactful messaging and how you can make a real difference through your writing.
Rachel, welcome to the show!
[00:01:28] Rachel Lawton: Hi, Louis, this is a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:30] Louis DeMaso: I’d like to start by reading a quote that I found really inspiring from your website, and that’s, you’re here because you need a writer. No wait, it’s more than that. You need a messenger. Somebody that believes in the good in what you’re doing. Who understands the industry challenges you face. Someone that can simplify your message and amplify your voice and who can help you challenge the status quo so that sustainability isn’t the exception, but the norm.
With that context, could you begin by describing what you do at work every day?
[00:01:59] Rachel Lawton: Yeah, absolutely. so I thought to say those things on my website, because I think that is a challenge that sustainable companies and brands face. It’s a difficult industry, with the fear of greenwashing and all of the complex terminology. Somebody that can really push your brand’s messaging and who that brand is, is vital.
You can’t just have any writer, um, when you’re a sustainability writer, you don’t just care about the money or it’s not just about the job. And, and that’s not to invalidate that as a purpose for working at all, but you really recognize the importance of sustainability and you really believe in the people that you’re working with.
So that’s why I included that quote. So with that in mind, I am a content writer and strategist for climate conscious brands. I predominantly write blog posts and social media captions. I do other stuff if my clients ask it, such as newsletter copy or web copy. And. Yeah, that’s, uh, that’s pretty much the bulk of what I do.
[00:03:12] Louis DeMaso: That’s great. Could you describe the difference between a messenger and a writer? I thought that was an interesting distinction you drew.
[00:03:19] Rachel Lawton: Absolutely. So messaging to me is about using the words that you would use in writing. but to evoke feelings and emotions from the audience. So it’s about knowing who they are and speaking directly to them. And it’s showing up and saying, this is our brand. These are our values. This is what we stand for and bringing in people almost like building your tribe.
So people are always looking for brands who. they resonate with and who they align with. And that’s where messaging is really powerful with consistent messaging that consistently shows who you are and paints you as an authority. You can bring your audience along with you, turn them into loyal customers, which In, you know, I’m not saying the world needs more commerce, but in terms of sustainability, I think if we can show people that there are industries and there are companies with sustainable solutions for you.
I think that’s really powerful and I think that’s where the power in messaging is.
[00:04:25] Louis DeMaso: And you talked earlier about how you really need to know sustainability to be a good sustainability messenger. I’m sure that having that context helps you, um, helps you with that messaging and speak to the values that the customers are looking for more. Is that right?
[00:04:41] Rachel Lawton: Absolutely. Yes, I know, at some point we’ll probably talk about do you need to be an expert in sustainability. And maybe, maybe I’ll just skip ahead to that because I think it’s important to this question. Um, you do, I think you do need a foundation. It’s like if somebody asked me to write for a medical journal, I would have no idea what to talk about, and I would be speaking to an audience who would know I didn’t know what I was talking about.
And so that messaging would fall flat because it would be completely wrong, addressed at the wrong people, using all the wrong language. So I do think that a foundation is important, but that doesn’t mean that you need to be an expert in that.
[00:05:24] Louis DeMaso: How did you become an expert in sustainability for the purposes of developing brand strategies and communicating about sustainability?
[00:05:32] Rachel Lawton: Well, my sustainability journey started a long time ago. Um, when I went to university and I studied geography and environment management, and I’ve just always had a fascination for For the world and how it’s interconnected physically how it connects with human development. And so I studied that as part of my degree, I went on to do some volunteer projects around the world, and.
Just with not just professional experience, but also life experience, you, you start to see the same things occurring in the same patterns and slowly all the pieces slot in until you’ve got this huge picture of broad knowledge. And you can start to make connections between, you know, this is happening over here and therefore I know that that’s going to have that impact over here.
So, you know, as much as there is to be said for studying and staying up to date with the news, it’s also just getting yourself out there. Life experience, I think is, is very powerful in sustainability.
[00:06:43] Louis DeMaso: That experience that you’ve described sounds like it sets a great foundation for the communication work you do. Could you describe a little bit about how you draw on that experience in your day to day work?
[00:06:52] Rachel Lawton: absolutely. So, I, and I think that also ties into a wider picture of Bringing in your life experience and transferable skills because not only do I have this experience and sustainability, but I’m also an educator and I have been leading the social studies for a long time. And when you’re an educator, there’s actually a lot of parallels with content creation because you have an objective that you have to meet. So basically whoever is engaging with your content needs to go away with an action or having learned something. If you’re talking strategy, you need in teaching, you need to develop long term and medium term plans. Same with strategy.
You need to think about the sequence of what you’re doing, how it flows and how it connects. You also need to think about who you’re speaking to in teaching. You might be working with adults. You might be working with young children. You’re always breaking down complex terms to make them suitable for your audience.
Again, completely transferable. So that’s why I say, I think. There’s so much to be said for the varied life experience and you’d be surprised when you sit down and you make a list of all your skill, you’d be surprised at how transferable they are and how much you can draw upon any life experience in, in order to make your content more powerful.
[00:08:23] Louis DeMaso: I think that’s so powerful, especially for people who may be in a particular role or particular industry that is not sustainably focused and are trying to get more into sustainability. Looking for those skills that are transferable is key. And I really liked that you mentioned the, um, the skill of being able to break complex ideas down and make them more digestible, because that’s something that we’ve heard from many guests and just in general online about sustainability is that being a, um, a key to communicating sustainability, uh, to stakeholders.
If you’re working in a company and trying to get different people within the company on board or communicating to consumers or customers, uh, in brand messaging and things like that. Have you found any strategies or approaches that you use to try to make sustainability jargon more digestible for people?
Cause I know that there’s a, there’s a lot of sustainability jargon out there.
[00:09:13] Rachel Lawton: I think essentially, I think it’s really easy to overcomplicate it, but actually it’s always about simplification and when you’re learning to write, a common message that you’ll come across is write to one person and write to a friend. And often, if you’re trying to write something and you’re not sure how to get started, something you’ll see often is Start it with dear mum or dear dad. I’m going to explain to you how solar panels work, for example. And then, of course, you edit that bit out. But what it means is you’ve had this person in mind who’s not an expert. And you know that person. So you know the terminology that they’re going to struggle with and be unfamiliar with. And that’s also why. don’t think you need to be an expert in sustainability because I think when you are an expert, you can be so up close to things and so familiar with that terminology that you forget the person you’re writing for isn’t. And it can become that much harder to break those subjects and those concepts down.
So
[00:10:20] Louis DeMaso: I really like your recommendation to write as if you’re speaking to a friend or your family because, you know, you know what they’ll, they’re, they’re gonna understand.
And what they might not understand. And if somebody is a sustainability expert and trying to write social media content or a blog post or this or that, um, I feel like it’s tempting to want to come across as an expert to use all of your fancy jargon and try to throw in all the, all the concepts that are most advanced, but I guess that wouldn’t really land with the majority of people.
Right.
[00:10:51] Rachel Lawton: No, and I’m so glad you asked that because… When you are writing, you really need to leave your ego behind. It is not about you. You’re, as the writer, you’re the last person on the list and you can’t be selfish in your writing. Um, the amount of times I’ve written something that I was so proud of, I loved how it sounds, some, I don’t know, genius simile.
That, that in the end I just had to cut because I was like, this is about me just like showing how well I can write and actually it adds nothing to the copy and it doesn’t help the reader.
[00:11:26] Louis DeMaso: When you, um, could you describe a little bit about your experience with writing as a profession? I imagine that if you’re training to be a writer, you learn a lot of fancy things that, um, I don’t know, maybe you have to unlearn as you become more focused on copywriting and, you know, the broader messaging than kind of the technical aspects of writing.
[00:11:48] Rachel Lawton: So, well, absolutely. I was. blown away at how much I had to unlearn. Um, I’ve always been recognised, even from when I was about eight years old, I’ve always been recognised as a strong writer. But the thing is, um, different people reading your writing are looking for different things. So your teachers at school, for example, are looking for you to use all fancy, complicated sentence constructions and words.
And then of course, if you study at university, you have to write at the academic level. So when I did move into writing. The most recent writing I had done had been for my master’s degree, so I had to write at a really high academic level. And there’s something about putting pen to paper or putting your hands to the keyboard where there’s a disconnect and all of your ability to talk conversationally. stops, and you switch into this academic mode, and you’d be really surprised at how hard it is not to do that.
[00:12:57] Louis DeMaso: I’ve witnessed that myself. I definitely write differently than I talk, and I think most people do.
[00:13:03] Rachel Lawton: absolutely. And you know, you read emails you’ve sent, and you’d never read, you’d never say that kind of stuff to a friend, you know, I hope you’re well, and you know, whatever. Um, it’s just something, there’s something that happens when we’re using a different medium to communicate. So that I actually found something very hard to unlearn was just talking conversationally and like relaxing into the copy.
Um, but yes, there is a lot to learn in writing. And I think when you get into it, especially if you’ve been told you’re a strong writer. you don’t, you just think, well, I just have to write, you know about what I know and I just need to write about this thing. But no, you need to research the audience’s questions and you actually need to structure it so that there’s a flow and then there’s different writing framework works that you might employ depending on the kind of copy that your writing.
So that was, um, yes, there’s a whole host of resources. That are available that you really need to study in order to be able to do that effectively.
[00:14:07] Louis DeMaso: It sounds like there’s a scale of formality here. On one hand, you know, the academic formal writing that sounds nothing like the way you would speak. And then on the other hand, there’s all of the slang words and things that we use in speaking. I assume that there’s a part of this process of brand communication that is finding kind of the right tone to use and you know, you don’t want to be too casual, right?
How do you, how do you find the level of formality? Is it different for different brands or would you recommend kind of a certain way to approach it for most brands?
[00:14:40] Rachel Lawton: That’s a great question. I, I definitely would not recommend a certain way to approach it because that’s the beauty and the uniqueness of the brands. They have to stand out with their own personality. And if they sound the same as everyone else, no one’s going to pay attention. So when. When you’re writing and you’re working with a brand, a lot of the time they will already have a tone and a style guide, so they’ll give that to you and they’ll say this is the kind of language that we use, we avoid these terms, and then you can also look at their previous publications and get a feel for the kind of things that they say.
However, Many of the brands that I’ve worked with are at an earlier stage and they actually come to me and say we, we don’t have our voice defined yet. And it’s not necessarily the writer’s job to do that for them, but you can help them if you’re prepared to do that and if that’s part of your agreement.
So when I’m working with brands in that situation, I ask them, what’s your personality? Give me five to ten adjectives that describes who you are. Tell me a celebrity that your brand is most like, for example, or
[00:15:58] Louis DeMaso: I like the celebrity one a lot. I feel like there might be some really creative answers that gets you down a cool path.
[00:16:05] Rachel Lawton: exactly, because then you just look at that celebrity and how they show up and you’re like, okay, so you’re like a Jack Nicholson. I can, I can work with that, you know, so yes, you can, you can guide them towards how they want to come across. And then that dictates. how you shape the copy. So, you know, Dove, for example, if we look at their brand personality, Dove is all about nurturing and protection.
That’s what they want people to feel when they use their products. You wouldn’t use that same tone of voice as you would with Oatly, for example, who are all about, you know, being edgy. And I think what’s funny about Oatly is their product is oat milk, which is a pretty boring product and their coffee is the opposite of boring.
And that’s what makes it really engaging and surprising. And that’s why I think it’s important that. You find a unique voice and you don’t try and sound like everyone else because there’s no other oat milk product that I know of on the market that sound like Oatly does and that makes them stand out to me.
[00:17:15] Louis DeMaso: That’s wonderful. When you’re communicating with consumers and everything, I can see how building that, um, building that voice is really important. And I’m also reminded of, you know, for those that are working in kind of internal sustainability roles, or maybe their chief sustainability officers commuting with their company.
And this and that, that it’s, it’s also important to think about voice, right? And trying to not use those overly complicated academic types of communications, but trying to make initiatives and goals and communications about where the company is currently, um, approachable and friendly. Maybe, maybe that’s the tone or maybe it’s inspiring.
[00:17:53] Rachel Lawton: Absolutely. I do think that essentially we’re all working towards the same goal and that’s action and change towards a more sustainable future and the quicker and easier we can get there. the better. And that means not showing, you know, how talented you might be with words, but just being effective in your communication to drive you towards the result.
[00:18:16] Louis DeMaso: That’s great. So I’d like to peel back the curtain a little bit and look a little bit more about your, you know, day to day work life. Um, you’re a freelancer, right?
[00:18:28] Rachel Lawton: Yep.
[00:18:29] Louis DeMaso: Could you describe a little bit about how that looks in terms of, um, like how you engage with clients and find potential clients who are looking for sustainability communication support?
[00:18:38] Rachel Lawton: Absolutely. Um, so something that I had no idea I was going to need to do when I first started this job was actually marketing myself and finding clients, because until this point, you know, it’s been the traditional. There’s a job interview and I’m going to study for it and I will apply and maybe if they like me, they’ll hire me.
And it’s a completely different dynamic now, not least for that, you know, there’s less of a hierarchy because you’re not applying to a company and hoping they hire you. You actually have a skill that a company needs and you’re going into this conversation as an equal that can provide a service that can help them.
Um, that’s really lovely and that’s empowering, but you need to find those clients in the first place. And that is the bit I just didn’t know I had to do. So as I was thinking, how can I, how can I build this career? I developed my LinkedIn profile and it was awful to start with. I’m so embarrassed. I wish I had a screenshot or I’m glad I don’t actually.
[00:19:51] Louis DeMaso: Well, it looks good now.
[00:19:53] Rachel Lawton: Yeah, thank you. It has been through several iterations and it probably will again. Um, but yeah, I had to start from the bottom and look at what other people ahead of me were doing, pull in the bits that resonated with me and start marketing myself. So, not only do I look for people on job boards that need a writer, or I connect with people through LinkedIn, but I also have to make sure that I’m putting out content that paints me as an authority and shows people who I am, what my values are, and why they should work with me as well.
So, there’s both an active… I don’t want to say passive, it’s not passive, but it’s more of a, like a long term strategy, whereby you are reaching out to people and you’re applying for, for jobs that are advertised, but you’re also just making sure you’re present and staying top of mind. And I actually like to think of, I like to think of LinkedIn as a live CV.
So any client that was looking for a sustainability writer. they would find my profile, they’d see that I’m present, they’d see that I post about the kinds of things they want to write about, and they would see that I know what I’m talking about. So in that way, um, you know, you’re drawing clients to you as much as you’re going out and seeking them.
[00:21:24] Louis DeMaso: The conversation around how to use LinkedIn, I think is super interesting in terms of career advancement because it’s a relatively new phenomena in the job market is really leveraging social media to, to give you your next opportunity. Do you have any particular. Do you deploy a very focused strategy with LinkedIn and do anything in particular, or do you just kind of go out there, make posts, interact with people now?
It sounds like it’s more
[00:21:49] Rachel Lawton: you need, yes, you need a strategy. Well, you’d hope from a content strategist that you, that they could create a strategy. Um, so at first, yes, of course. I just randomly posted. Whatever. And that is what people say to do. They say just post, and I know that’s not very helpful advice, but there is an element of truth to that because, um, one of the reasons that people hold back is they say, well, I don’t know what to say, or I’m embarrassed people are going to think I’m a fraud, or they have a huge sense of imposter syndrome, but you just need to get out there and build that resilience.
and not worry what people think. Plus, when you’re in the early stages, no one is looking at you, which is great because you can just practice. Um, as a writer as well, that is writing practice because you are practicing how to hook an audience and how to format your writing so that it’s interesting. And so they read to the end and you’re including the call to action at the end to engage them.
So it’s actually really good practice for anyone that’s, that is a writer.
[00:22:55] Louis DeMaso: Okay.
[00:22:56] Rachel Lawton: But yes, when you’re thinking about. using LinkedIn to find clients, you need to be very deliberate in who you’re connecting with. So you don’t want an audience just full of anyone because they could, you could get loads of reactions to your posts, like, you know, people that feel like they know you and they want to Support you, but not a single client because you don’t have the right audience looking at your stuff.
So you need to be really deliberate fi. So in my case, I connect with other writers because I think that’s really important to have a network. And then I go to sustainability posts and I look at who’s been commenting on them, and I connect with them so that I know I’m in their sustainability circles. And then when they’re looking at your profile, you need to make sure that your messaging is clear and you’re showing up and showing them. This is what I can do. So you start with your content pillars. I don’t know if that if. If you if that makes any sense to you. Yeah.
[00:23:57] Louis DeMaso: Yeah. If you could describe content pillars though, a little bit, I think that would be really interesting.
[00:24:01] Rachel Lawton: yes. So, uh, this is true for your own self marketing and this is really important for any content marketer to know as well. So the content pillars are the things that you talk about all the time. that support what your brand identity is and what your messaging is. So in my case, my content pillars are sustainability, writing, marketing, and just general promotion, whether that’s of myself, like here’s a client testimonial that proves, um, You know, how effectively I did a job for them, or if it’s promoting a brand, for example, saying, look at what, I don’t know, North Face, look how effective their copy is, for example.
So by having those content pillars clear, you have some really good guideposts as to how you’re showing up on the platform. And what that means is when clients come to your profile, they’ll see, okay, this person is very clearly in my niche and therefore I want to work with them. So yeah, that strategy is really important.
You need to nail down and attract your audience with that consistent messaging. And with regards to frequency, some people say post every day. For me, that’s, that’s too much. Um, at the end of the day, LinkedIn is still a social media platform and we know that social media. Whilst it’s fantastic for networking, it’s not necessarily conducive to mental peace, so I’m definitely not one of those people that posts every day.
I post two times a week probably, and I really try to make that high quality, and I engage with my connections, the people that have commented on my posts and with other people that I might potentially work with in the future. So there’s, there’s definitely a strategy. And I think if you do it in an ad hoc way, you might as well not do it at all because you’re not working towards that outcome of, of finding clients.
[00:26:08] Louis DeMaso: It sounds like, um, connecting with people and interacting with people that are in your niche and that really, um, are related to what you’re trying to accomplish is important. And that could be, um, If you’re a freelancer and want to, um, find work, then people who might be looking for work to be done, if you’re an employee at a company and looking to find a sustainability role, it could be other sustainability professionals who might be at companies looking to hire things like that.
And then, um, posting those pieces of content that are relevant to them, right. And are interesting and add value to them. And you mentioned how you try to make each post high quality. Cause you’re not going for volume. You’re going for quality. Could you describe a little bit about what a high quality post for you looks like?
[00:26:53] Rachel Lawton: Yes, absolutely. So I, whenever I’m kind of walking around or doing the dishes or, you know, just letting my mind wander, I’ll have an idea for a post and I’ll go and write it down. I think it’s really important to document your ideas because then you can go back and cross out the rubbish ones. Uh, because what that does is it, it frees up the space for the good quality ones to come.
And the good quality ones are the ones that speak to your ideal. And that’s not to say that you can’t post for other people in your network. Um, know, I have, I would say so much more than half my network are other writers and other writers are not going to hire me. Um, I’m still going to speak to them, but my whole strategy is not going to be about engaging with those lovely writers.
Because that’s when not that’s not where the partnership is. So as I’m thinking of posts, I’ve got a whole list on an ocean board that I’m always adding to. But when it comes down to it, I always. I just have a one rule and it’s, is this a problem my ideal customer is facing? And if it’s not, it goes in the bin because what’s the, what’s the point in putting in all of that effort and, and, you know, to be, to, to do a high quality post, it does take time.
And if you’re not speaking to the right person. There’s no point you’re speaking into the void.
[00:28:23] Louis DeMaso: I think that’s so important to discuss the importance of speaking to the problems that the person you’re trying to communicate with might be facing. And we are talking about self promotion, social media, broad communication, but I’ll take us down a quick side path as well in terms of internal communication within a company.
And it’s a communication principle to speak to the different audiences, um, and the problems they may be facing. It’s, um, so common that a, you know, sustainability champion within a company might be needing to communicate with an operations manager as well as a sales manager. And then maybe, um, if you’re in agriculture, like me, like the people who manage the farms and work on the farms, and they’re facing all entirely different problems and different pressures in their daily jobs.
So trying to communicate why the sustainability initiative is important in the same way to all of them is probably going to fall flat with most of them, but trying to understand what problems they’re facing and how sustainability. And the projects you’re working on can help them solve their own problems, whether it be achieving their production goals or achieving their sales sales goals.
Um, that’s so important. And it’s a great aspect of communication that we’ve touched on
[00:29:38] Rachel Lawton: I completely agree. And you know, that’s why, as you say, it is so important to know your audience. And we know we live in an attention economy and we have, we are overwhelmed with information and you have to grab that person in seconds. So if the first few lines of whatever you’ve done does not speak to that ideal customer, they’re not going to see it.
[00:30:05] Louis DeMaso: grabbing that person and grabbing their attention immediately is. Is, is, um, is important, right?
[00:30:10] Rachel Lawton: that’s it. Absolutely. Yeah, mere seconds and then they’ve gone.
[00:30:16] Louis DeMaso: So, um, talking about freelancing, talking about, uh, self promotion, which, you know, might feel to some like, uh, um, a bad concept, but you know, it’s, it’s part of selling your work, selling yourself. If you’re look, if you’re actually looking for work, then it’s key. Even if you’re not looking for work, then just selling your competency and your job is important.
Always. Um, did you feel uncomfortable at first when you took the dive into freelancing? With promoting yourself and kind of speaking to your abilities.
[00:30:46] Rachel Lawton: Yeah, very. Um, also just this huge sense of imposter syndrome. I just felt like I didn’t have enough experience to be talking about what I was talking about. Um, but I think that’s the, that’s the important thing is at no point do you have to pretend. You’re something you’re not. You just speak to what you already know and how you’re helping clients if you happen to have a client already.
You don’t have to make things up and you don’t have to pretend that you’re an expert, that you’re an expert in this. I certainly… was nervous about getting out there and promoting myself, but a very wise mentor said to me that you’ve got to attract the right people. You’ve got to turn the right ones on and the wrong ones off.
And that comes through your consistent messaging and self promotion isn’t a bad thing at all because. You’ve got a service that you want to offer people and help them and in our industry, going back to how we started this,
[00:31:57] Louis DeMaso: think
[00:31:59] Rachel Lawton: because you really believe that people have products and services and solutions that can move us towards a sustainable future.
So you need to put yourself in front of those people so they can find you and then you can help them.
[00:32:12] Louis DeMaso: the
[00:32:14] Rachel Lawton: we’re doing marketing for these brands because we know they’re doing something good. So why can’t we market ourselves as well? Because we know we’re trying to achieve something good as well.
[00:32:23] Louis DeMaso: Absolutely, you described marketing and how at the very beginning and how it, you know, has throughout history potentially contributed to some downsides as well as some upsides. And, you know, why not use the power of marketing for good, right?
[00:32:36] Rachel Lawton: Absolutely. Um, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the podcast and marketing safe planet. It’s fantastic. And it’s my favorite. And yes, like I say, I think marketing has a lot to make up for. But it’s the one thing that we know influences behavior and, and changes people’s behavior. And now more than ever, we need behavior change.
So I think it’s really important.
[00:32:59] Louis DeMaso: So we’ve talked a lot about, um, how you got into your sustainability communication career and your freelancing gig and how, how that, um, operates behind the scenes. Could you describe a little bit about what you like most about your job and also potentially what’s most difficult about the job of communicating sustainability?
[00:33:19] Rachel Lawton: So yes, my favorite thing, I just got off a call a couple of days ago with a new client. And every time I do that, I feel so invigorated because there are so many sustainable solutions happening in the world and you just wouldn’t know it. Um, that’s one of the biggest joys I’ve had in doing this job. I, I meet clients who are just doing something incredible that I didn’t know existed or didn’t, you know, didn’t understand the depth of it.
And they’re so passionate and, and value aligned. And. It’s, it’s incredible because this is obviously a remote career and remote careers can have their downsides, but what’s great about that is that you are connected to the whole world. So you have a whole world of people who are trying to advocate for a sustainable lifestyle and put solutions in people’s hands.
And I just think that’s wonderful meeting people that are really passionate and helping them get, get their message out there. You know, what more could you ask for?
[00:34:23] Louis DeMaso: It sounds like you must meet some really interesting people.
[00:34:26] Rachel Lawton: Yes, so interesting. And in industries that I never, A, I didn’t know existed and B, never thought I’d go down. Um, you know, I’m working with a client right now who works in next gen materials because their intention is to provide alternatives to leather, which I think is really important. I’ve worked with a company that’s trying to revolutionize packaging.
I worked with a company that’s trying to promote heat pumps, and before that I didn’t know what a heat pump was, and it’s just fantastic, you, you get a glimpse of so many different industries, and again as we were talking about building that broad experience, slowly by slowly you start to connect the dots, it’s all under the sustainability umbrella.
But, uh, you know, you get a really fantastic broad glimpse of everything that’s going on in every industry, and it’s, it’s just fascinating and inspiring, really inspiring.
[00:35:24] Louis DeMaso: And you don’t need to be an expert in all the little details to be able to communicate, um, clearly what they are trying to achieve to their consumers and to their, um, partners, right?
[00:35:35] Rachel Lawton: Yeah, I really don’t think you do. Um, and one thing that I’ve learned along the way, so the heat pump job was actually my first. That was my first client. I’ve rarely been so terrified as I was because I felt so out of my depth. And the client, um, the client knew this. It was, um, it was my first writing role.
They knew it was my writing, my first writing role, and they wanted to give me a chance. They were very supportive, but I was terrified because I just didn’t know. I didn’t know this industry. Um, but What skills did I have? I had great research skills. I had the internet at my fingertips. I had the ability to synthesize information and transform it into something accessible. So, even though I wasn’t an expert in that exact thing, I had all those transferable skills. And I had this foundation of understanding and sustainability. And I, I think that’s all you need.
[00:36:41] Louis DeMaso: You mentioned research and synthesizing information as two key skills, would you say that’s what you’re really doing every day? Like what’s the, what’s the core of the, the skills you lean on for, um, for doing the work you do?
[00:36:55] Rachel Lawton: I, yeah, I would say that is probably the core of what, of what any writer or strategist does. It’s like that quote from Abraham Lincoln, you know, give, what is it, give me 10 hours to chop down a tree and I’ll spend eight of them, you know, sharpening the axe. Uh, now obviously I’m a sustainability writer so I don’t think anyone should be chopping trees down.
Um, but it is all in the preparation and. Not only do you need to be researching for the topic that you’re writing about, but if you’re helping your client with strategy, you also need to be thinking about. Before that, before you’re doing that research, what actually does my customer know and what kinds of questions are they asking?
So yes, researching the topic is key. Also researching the question and what they need is key as well. There’s no way you can write any good content without that. And I think most writers that have been doing this for a while, they’re familiar with this idea that. If you’re sitting in front of your computer and you’re stuck, or you don’t know what to do, you haven’t done enough research and you have to go back to the drawing board and fill in those gaps before the writing can come.
[00:38:14] Louis DeMaso: I love it. And, uh, I’m learning a lot about communication as we speak and I’ll take, um, what you’ve described here and tie it back to kind of the world of sustainability programming within a company and say that, you know, it sounds a lot to me like the, um, stakeholder engagement and implementation cycle in terms of you, you mentioned how, you know, you can’t really produce good writing unless you take the time to understand the audience and prepare.
Just like you can’t really create a good sustainability strategy or really implement good sustainability programs without first taking the time to create a plan in the first place, understand what stakeholders are looking for, understand the challenges the company is facing and really tease out what are the core elements of what you need to address here before then going and creating the plan, creating the writing, creating the project and running with it.
[00:39:04] Rachel Lawton: That’s it. Absolutely. You know, you made me think of, um, I don’t know the full details, but I know the general gist, which I think is enough. Uh, was it, uh, Domino’s Pizza that tried to establish themselves, like, in Italy? The world capital of really incredible artisanal pizza. And again, it’s that research, like, did you really think about that? Did you think that your product was really solving people’s needs? And did you even think that there was a need there? Um, and I think maybe if they had done that research, uh, they might not have had that experience. I think it’s a great, a warning story for all of us.
[00:39:42] Louis DeMaso: I love that example. And it really speaks to that idea of trying to understand the needs of the audience you’re speaking to, or the customers you’re trying to serve. And that could be customers in terms of the traditional sense or internal customers, you know, even your team members can be your customers in terms of them needing you to provide them with what they need.
[00:40:05] Rachel Lawton: Absolutely. Yeah, completely.
[00:40:07] Louis DeMaso: Um, so what do you find most challenging about your job or even not most challenging, but what’s, what’s the challenge you’re grappling with currently?
[00:40:16] Rachel Lawton: Well, I’ve, I’ve answered it really. It was, I think for me, it’s that self marketing element. Um, not because I find it hard because I know what to do, but. It’s something that gets shoved to the bottom of the priority list because, um, I, I doubt that I’m unique in this, but I put the client’s work first, because that’s who you’ve got the duty to, that’s who’s paying you, and that’s your agreement.
And, you know, I am very, I’m not someone that breaks deadlines. I’m really strict like that. So I find. As a freelancer, it’s less about the obvious parts of the job that I find difficult, like the writing itself or the research, but it’s more those things that you just didn’t know existed, like finding the time to do that marketing and making sure that you’ve got enough resources yourself and energy resources to keep doing what you’re doing well and not getting burned out.
That’s definitely something that I’m, I’d say I’m still learning. I’m still learning that one.
[00:41:26] Louis DeMaso: Are there any strategies you use to try to manage your energy as a freelancer?
[00:41:31] Rachel Lawton: Yes, I work less than I used to. Paradoxically, I think that when you’re starting out, you feel like you need to know everything. And you also might not have the luxury of time, you might be under real pressure to deliver, you know, everyone’s got bills to pay mouths to feed. And it can be really Tempting to try and rush the process and to spend.
You know, 24 seven studying and being productive, but I really believe in that saying you can’t pull from an empty cup and the mind needs that space for the creativity to come. And when. We’re already overloaded. Um, you know, just walk down the street, you’ll see 20 adverts and a million cars and we’re on high alert all the time. So I think that finding that space where you can just do something that You can reconnect with you or your loved ones and let, you know, whatever you’re thinking about. The thing is, I don’t think you ever stop thinking about work necessarily. I think when you’ve got an idea, it’s always in the back of your mind.
And that’s where it should be because slowly there’s connections forming. So what do I do? Uh, I do a lot of yoga. I’m a bit of a stereotypical sustainability, sustainability person. Um, I do a lot of yoga. I meditate. I also, um, I’m in a singing group, so I sing with friends. I’m not going to sing now.
[00:43:20] Louis DeMaso: we’ll do a separate episode for that.
[00:43:22] Rachel Lawton: yeah, uh, sustainability singers, um, you know, just.
Kind of things that allow me to be creative or in flow in a different way and in that way you kind of, I feel like you top up your battery again so that you can go back in with a renewed energy and a renewed focus and also um, a zest and an enthusiasm for what you’re doing because I think no matter what you do when your whole life revolves around it, it’s very easy to resent it. And if you are reading the news daily, the sustainability space isn’t full of positive messaging. It can be a really heavy place to be, and everyone that’s in this space is in it because they care. So, I actually think, and I know I’m very privileged in saying this because I can create distance, I know that there’s people going through terrible things in the world that are under stress all the time. But I think if you have, if you have that luxury of being able to separate yourself from, from those things, then you’ve got more energy to give back to them.
[00:44:39] Louis DeMaso: And it definitely helps when you’re working on, um, projects and when you’re doing work that’s meaningful to you. Right. And that you’re passionate about. And, um, that’s why we’re in the sustainability space is because, you know, we care about pushing this, uh, this concept forward and making the world a better place.
So it’s, um, It’s wonderful to be in it. And to your point, it also can be crazy. Sometimes make you want to pull your hair out with lack of progress. If you want to, um, work quickly towards any particular goal, but honestly, there’s so much momentum and energy behind sustainability today that it’s really inspiring as well.
So, it’s, it’s great to see so much interest in it and, it’s great to see so many people wanting to get into the field too.
[00:45:25] Rachel Lawton: There is. And, you know, you’ve made me think of something, um, It’s also really, it’s empowering, uh, to be able to take action, and when you, I actually went through a period of, of really bad climate doom for a couple of years, uh, which was actually of the reason I, I decided to get into writing was because I just felt like I needed to do, um, I needed to be more actively involved. Since I’ve been more actively involved, even though I’m more informed about what’s going on and all the negatives around that, I’m also so much more aware of how much is being done and there is loads being done. And that’s really empowering and that’s very encouraging and that can stop that paralysis that comes from that climate doom.
So yeah, I think it’s a great place to be.
[00:46:18] Louis DeMaso: I love that. I love that because it’s I found the exact same thing to be true that keeping up with it and really being immersed in it. You see how many amazing projects, how many amazing products and companies are not only have existed for a long time, but are also coming online now. Um, and so I want to wrap up by saying, you know, let’s say there’s somebody who has that climate doom right now.
They’re wanting to work on sustainability. Um, and specifically they’re inspired by the job, the type of work that you’ve described today. What would you say would be some tangible steps they could take to try to get into the realm of sustainability communication?
[00:46:58] Rachel Lawton: Well, the first thing I would do is actually… to take a step back. Um, because I think what we tend to do is jump in and start looking at all the jobs. Actually, I think take a step back and audit your skills and see what skills you already have and how they can be transferable to the industry you’re looking at getting into.
From there, you can start looking at jobs and you can compare those jobs to your skill gaps. And that’s where you can plug them. So once you know your skill gaps, you, I mean, the, I haven’t taken a single course in, um, you know, a paid course in marketing or in writing everything I’ve learned, I’ve learned.
From other LinkedIn creators. I’ve learned from websites HubSpot is incredible. So I think once you know what, you know, you can then find everything you could need online for free to start building that knowledge. I think if you can invest in yourself, do it. I think that, um, That’s a bit more of a shortcut and it can be really confidence building as well.
Um, I, I’ve worked with a business mentor just recently to help me move forward with the things that I just didn’t know how to do. And I’m sure I would have figured them out in five years time, but I didn’t want to wait that long. So there’s plenty of free stuff. If you can invest in yourself, do that. In terms of getting into the writing space, uh, build a portfolio.
And that doesn’t mean that you need published work. It just means that you need evidence that you can write. So go away, study the frameworks, look at how effective Poppy has done. Look at brands that you admire, how they do it. And if you don’t have any clients, which you won’t have because you’re new, just try and emulate.
Examples of good copy. A, that’s going to start to seep in through your pores and you’ll be able to replicate that in the future. And B, at some point you’ll have a couple of pieces that you’re really proud of. And so when you do see a job that you like, you can send those samples to the client and that’s not misleading at all.
You’re not saying here’s my published work. You’re saying here’s evidence that I can write and that can really set you up. For, for success with those clients. And I think ultimately it’s about playing the long game. Um, don’t worry if you’re not seeing results. Stay in your own lane. Don’t look at other people that are ahead of you because they’re, they have a completely different story to you.
Everybody’s got different limitations and different opportunities, but consistency really is key. you need to be practicing consistently. You need to be showing up consistently on socials and slowly but surely that experience will build until before you know it you’ve been doing it for six months, a year, two years and suddenly you look back and you see how far you’ve come from not knowing anything.
[00:50:15] Louis DeMaso: Well, that is just such helpful information and tangible steps that somebody can take and, you’ve shared some great stories as well on your journey from your first, your first gig to now being well known on LinkedIn for all of your sustainability marketing, um, advice and projects.
So, Rachel, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today and for sharing all of your experience with everyone listening. I’ve had a lot of fun and it’s been really insightful for me as well.
[00:50:42] Rachel Lawton: Thank you, this was a complete pleasure. Thank you and I really appreciate all the work that you’re doing and helping people understand what careers are out in the sustainability space.
[00:50:52] Louis DeMaso: And for those listening, I hope you enjoyed this episode and that you’ll join us next time on the sustainability skillset podcast.