Listen Now
In this episode of the Sustainability Skill Set podcast, host Louis DeMaso speaks with Ryan Spies, a passionate executive leader with over a decade of experience building sustainability, decarbonization, and ESG strategies within Fortune 500 companies.
Ryan shares insights on how companies can reduce greenhouse gases, what makes a successful sustainability program, and how to integrate sustainability into every aspect of a company. Ryan emphasizes the importance of understanding where a company can have influence and measuring data to put estimates on data that is not available.
He also discusses his own career path and how he got to where he is today. Ryan describes how sustainability jobs often evolve over time, requiring an entrepreneurial spirit, creativity, and flexibility. He recommends that job candidates demonstrate these characteristics and a passion for sustainability topics, which can be more important than specific skill sets or experiences, especially for entry-level positions.
Aspiring sustainability professionals will learn a lot from Ryan’s experience and practical advice, making this episode a must-listen. Tune in to discover how you can make a difference in your own company and beyond.
Read Instead
The following transcript has been edited to make it easier to read.
Introducing Ryan Spies: ESG Executive and Public Speaker
00:00 Louis DeMaso
Hello and welcome to the Sustainability Skill Set Podcast, a show where we explore careers in sustainability and the skills to help you succeed. I’m glad you’re here.
If you’re passionate about sustainability and hungry to learn, you’re in the right place. I’m your host, Louis DeMaso, a sustainability consultant and young sustainability professional learning right along with you.
Today I’m excited to bring you Ryan Spies.
Ryan is a passionate executive leader with over a decade of experience building sustainability, decarbonization and ESG strategies with Fortune 500 companies.
Throughout his career, he has focused on green building, energy efficiency, and reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
He was most recently Vice President of Sustainability at Clayco, one of the nation’s leading architecture, engineering, and construction companies. There, he set corporate emissions goals, designed net zero buildings, and deployed renewable energy systems while educating clients and partners.
Some of his notable achievements include setting science-based targets for Clayco, delivering their first enterprise ESG report, implementing an emissions reporting system, leading employee engagement on sustainability and climate, and directing renewable energy projects.
Ryan is a professional speaker on sustainability and ESG topics as well. He contributes to multiple events each year for organizations such as GreenBiz, Boston University, the U.S. Department of Energy, and more.
He most recently spoke on a panel at the Built Worlds 2023 Buildings Conference about how ESG is influencing building design.
Ryan is deeply integrated into the green building space, holding LEED certification, acting as the treasurer board member for Green Building United, and receiving the award for Energy Manager of the Year in 2020 from the Association of Energy Engineers.
He is passionate about creating broad impact across multiple industries and he has made incredible progress.
Ryan, thanks so much for joining us today. We are excited to hear more about your work. Welcome to the show.
01:45 Ryan Spies
Louis, it’s great to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Super fun conversation. Let’s get into it.
Sustainability professionals can create a broad impact through their work.
01:54 Louis DeMaso
Could you start by describing your role and what you do every day at work?
02:00 Ryan Spies
Every day in the world of corporate sustainability is different. As a leader, your focus is on developing and implementing programs across the company. As the company grows, these programs evolve and can take on a life of their own.
You usually need a team to help you succeed.
Corporate sustainability professionals typically engage in a number of basic activities. One of the most recent and prominent is reporting.
Many leading companies have been doing some form of reporting for over a decade, but the vast majority of mid-sized companies are just starting to jump into this space. Reporting is definitely one of the key facets that we should talk about today, along with what it requires.
However, the fun stuff is where you can create an impact. Over my career, I have worked for companies of many shapes and sizes, and we can explore any of those as we go.
03:19 Louis DeMaso
It seems like the opportunity to have an impact is a part of the job that you really enjoy.
Could you describe what inspires you about your work, and dive a little deeper into the impact it has? Or, if there’s anything else that comes to mind, feel free to discuss that as well.
03:44 Ryan Spies
People get into sustainability for various reasons, and for me, it was all about the climate crisis and what we can do to prevent its worst effects.
Although we are far down the line, every little effort we make today can have a measurable impact in the future. This is what I think about on a daily basis.
Sustainability is a broad field, and while climate-related work is probably the most popular, depending on where you are in the world, water or waste-related work may be more important. I also consider these issues, but my focus has always been on climate and understanding that we all have a part to play.
I believe that companies with the ability to make a significant impact should be doing so, and I hope that my career can guide some of those companies toward this goal.
Companies should start by collecting and analyzing data to understand where the greatest opportunities lie.
04:40 Louis DeMaso
What do you do every day to work towards those goals? What are you trying to achieve in your role?
04:44 Ryan Spies
To start with, understanding where a company can have influence is key.
In my experience working in manufacturing and then in building with Clayco, it’s important to identify where your impact lies. This begins with measurement.
As the saying goes, “You can’t manage what you can’t measure.” You must start by measuring the data you have and putting good estimates on the data you don’t.
For instance, start with scope one and two emissions, which are things you can control within a company.
In my previous job at Saint Gobain, scope one and two emissions were the majority of the company’s emissions so we focused on improvements in the manufacturing environments and the sourcing of energy.
However, at Clayco, most of the emissions come from scope three in the value chain and the products delivered. In this case, there aren’t many levers you can control, so it becomes about where you can have an influence. Without data, it’s hard to know where you can make a difference or have an impact.
Once you have that data, the next step is understanding the kind of company you work for and where their impact lies. This should be the first step in anyone’s career. You should ask yourself, “Where are the places this company can influence? Is that a place where I’m interested in working and having an impact?”
Companies with large scope one and two emissions have more control, so you can jump in and really make a difference. However, it’s not going to be easy. It takes hard work to move the needle.
When dealing with scope three, it’s much more challenging because you’re dealing with things that you influence but have no control over. This requires a different mindset.
06:41 Louis DeMaso
Absolutely. You’ve described that the first step is to really understand where your company has the greatest opportunities to make changes. How do you typically go about doing that?
06:50 Ryan Spies
To understand emissions in a manufacturing environment, start by looking at your energy bills. Identify whether you are burning natural gas on-site or if you are using a lot of electricity. Also, identify where you are sourcing your energy from.
In the US, utilities do not always provide information on grid mix, so you may need to use the EPA’s eGrid factors to estimate your emissions profile.
Once you have your data, start evaluating it in a spreadsheet program like Excel. Determine what levers you can pull to reduce emissions.
When tackling emissions, it’s important to think strategically and prioritize options that make sense for the company. Focusing on electricity use is a good starting point.
Since renewables are expected to become the dominant energy source in the US, consider integrating renewable energy into your strategy. Evaluate options such as onsite or offsite renewables or virtual power purchase agreements.
For natural gas usage, options are more limited. Energy efficiency measures (i.e., just using less) are always the first thing to think about. You might also consider replacement strategies like switching to renewable natural gas or electricity.
Ultimately, decarbonizing a carbon-intensive product will require strategies that should be evaluated based on cost and feasibility. By evaluating options and prioritizing them, you can develop a coherent emissions reduction strategy and put your efforts into the most impactful areas.
You can transition to a sustainability role by taking initiative and ‘managing up’.
11:40 Louis DeMaso
Strategic thinking and prioritization are crucial components. It’s impossible to tackle everything at once unless you have a large sustainability team, which most people don’t.
If you have the freedom and responsibility to set the strategy, it’s an incredible position to be in.
However, if you’re not in that position and are in a lower level of the company, but are passionate about sustainability and interested in contributing to the strategy, there are ways to manage up and have an impact.
Do you have any ideas or tips for how to do so?
12:18 Ryan Spies
Yeah, definitely. There are a number of things you can do depending on your situation. Let’s consider two scenarios.
Scenario one involves having a sustainability leader, such as a director, in the company.
Even if you’re not in a sustainability role, you can still connect with this person to understand their priorities and offer assistance. This could require you to take on additional responsibilities, but it presents an opportunity to make a difference, gain visibility, and potentially create a new job or advance your career.
Pursuing this path is an excellent way to start if you’re passionate about sustainability, and potentially the best path.
Look for a company working on something you care about, but which might not have everything figured out regarding sustainability. You can help them improve.
Scenario two is that your company does not have a sustainability leader and has yet to implement many sustainability practices.
To start, research your industry and analyze what your competitors or peers are doing in terms of sustainability, such as carbon, water, waste, and DEI practices. This will provide a comprehensive overview of what your company could be doing.
From there, identify where to begin and prioritize actions that make sense for your company.
You could also approach your company’s legal or risk officers to raise awareness. A big part of sustainability is risk management.
Risks related to sustainability are becoming more prevalent and it’s crucial to educate them. Prepare a concise presentation or document to illustrate the risk factors and potential solutions.
As companies progress, sustainability is integrated into all their operations.
16:41 Louis DeMaso
I appreciate your advice to start by looking for opportunities to get involved with your company’s existing sustainability efforts and figure out how to create a sustainability position if one doesn’t already exist.
Sustainability can tie into every aspect of the business, right?
17:04 Ryan Spies
Absolutely. I believe that, in the long term, traditional corporate sustainability roles will become more integrated with company strategy.
Currently, sustainability is often its own function within a company, separate from the rest of the business. This approach is not optimal.
The ideal situation is for sustainability to be embedded within the business as a whole, from the business president to the line workers, salespeople, and HR group. Each individual should see sustainability as part of their job, instead of something extra that they have to do.
Achieving this level of integration takes time and effort, and requires leadership from the top that sees the value in sustainability.
The value of sustainability will differ from company to company, depending on the company’s products, brand, and operations.
For consumer-facing companies, it may be about strengthening the brand.
For industrial companies, it may be about reducing costs and de-risking the supply chain.
For service companies, it may be about offering sustainable services to clients.
Regardless of the specifics, the overall goal should be the integration of sustainability into the business as a whole.
19:03 Louis DeMaso
It seems that the responsibility for sustainability could lie in different departments or locations within a company, depending on the industry and type of company.
However, the ultimate objective is for sustainability to be integrated throughout the entire company and in every role.
Do you agree with this?
19:19 Ryan Spies
I think that’s certainly what sustainability professionals want. It’s always been the focus of our conversations: how can we integrate sustainability into every aspect of the organization?
I’ve heard some people say they want to “work themselves out of the job,” but I don’t think that’s a valuable goal. Not only do you want job security, but there will always be sustainability-related issues that require attention.
Having someone dedicated to it full-time, guiding discussions and providing insight to senior leaders, will always be a valuable asset to a company.
While it may not be realistic to work yourself out of a job, integrating sustainability as much as possible is incredibly important.
For really large companies, it can be difficult for sustainability teams, which are often small, to have influence throughout the entire organization. This is where champions in different groups and entrepreneurship within the company come into play.
By identifying ways to improve with high-level ideas and initiatives, sustainability can be integrated more effectively across the company.
Sustainability professionals act as central pillars for communication and collaboration throughout their companies.
20:34 Louis DeMaso
We’ve talked quite a bit about developing a strategy. However, you just mentioned something that I’d like to hear more about.
What is the ongoing role of a sustainability professional within a company, particularly after setting the strategy and securing some initial wins?
20:58 Ryan Spies
Once you have set your strategy, execution becomes crucial.
Suppose your strategy emphasizes reducing emissions. In that case, you will need to learn about renewable energy and provide expertise to your procurement group for large-scale projects.
Accomplishing “big impact” deals will require pulling people from many different departments, such as legal, EHS, procurement, accounting, and finance.
Essentially, your job is to act as a central pillar for bringing in different talents.
You will need to work across various functions, and it’s a third hat for most people that you work with. Your job is not to make them care about what you do, but rather to show them the value of what you’re doing and that you need their expertise.
Each group has a different approach, attitude, belief system, and level of care. For legal, you’re talking about risk, and for procurement, you’re talking about securing supply and lowering prices.
Accounting folks can be tough, but you need them to help you. You can approach them by saying, “I don’t want to mess anything up for the company. Can you help me make sure I’m on the right path?” They love being able to help that way and don’t want to deal with a mess you’ve created later on down the line.
To answer your original question, after setting the strategy, the next step is executing. These things fall in series, and it’s challenging to execute without a strategy. While some people are attempting to do so, it’s tough without a North Star that everyone is working towards.
Strategy comes first, followed by operation and execution, and ultimately delivering results.
23:38 Louis DeMaso
Absolutely. One recurring theme we’ve heard from other guests on the podcast is the importance of communication and the need to adjust your communication strategy and message depending on the department or stakeholders you’re dealing with, whether they are internal or external.
As a sustainability professional, it’s essential to always be adapting and fine-tuning your approach to fit the audience. Could you speak more about this topic?
24:20 Ryan Spies
When you’re in a boardroom talking to the CEO or other senior leaders, the conversation is typically higher level and rarely gets into the details. However, you need to be prepared for any in-depth questions that may arise.
When speaking with middle-level management and other leaders, you will discuss detailed challenges and solutions.
When communicating with frontline associates or those doing the actual work, you need to relate what you’re doing to their everyday job. They may not care as much about the strategy, but they want to know how it will impact their job or make their job easier.
For example, if you’re eliminating diesel generators on job sites, people will appreciate the cost savings, less noise, and improved air quality.
Although emission reduction may be the underlying goal, it’s important to identify what matters to each person and focus on that in your conversations to build allies.
26:06 Louis DeMaso
That’s so important. It sounds like you’re hesitant to say “what’s in it for me,” but it’s crucial to getting everyone to buy in and fully accept the strategy.
Even if your motivating factors are centered around emissions or sustainability, being able to communicate the added value for each role, as you described, will further the sustainability agenda and help the company collectively pursue that strategy and grow.
Sustainability professionals must inspire people to change.
26:42 Louis DeMaso
Earlier, you discussed how one of your favorite aspects of your job is the impact you can have and the ability to pursue it. Now, let’s focus on the challenges you face.
What are some of the most difficult aspects of your job? Is there something that you have had to overcome throughout your career or something that you still struggle with?
27:17 Ryan Spies
Generally, the goal of this role is to inspire people to change, which can be a difficult task since most humans are resistant to change. Our default is to stay comfortable with the status quo.
As a sustainability professional, the majority of your job will involve trying to influence people to do things they would not have done otherwise. This requires a great deal of time, effort, and patience, as well as facing repeated rejections or roadblocks. If you find these challenges discouraging, this job may not be right for you.
However, if you’re able to find ways to navigate around these obstacles and hear “no” as an opportunity to explore alternative solutions, you’ll have the key to success. Changing the way we do business, redirecting company paths, and encouraging greater collaboration among team members are difficult tasks that require time and effort, but this is the core of a sustainability role.
When people push back, citing cost or time constraints, it’s up to you to show them that the benefits of change outweigh the risks. Your job is to find ways around roadblocks and keep the momentum going.
It is meaningful to work for a company that focuses on sustainability.
29:27 Louis DeMaso
You said that the goal is to change the way we do business, and that is both the most difficult and the most inspiring part, isn’t it?
29:39 Ryan Spies
Definitely. I worked as an engineer for the US Navy for a number of years, and it was nice working with some incredible people. However, I wanted to have an impact beyond my everyday work. I think that’s the underlying drive for many sustainability professionals.
More and more people, especially younger generations, feel like they don’t want to just go to work, get a paycheck, and go home. There’s nothing wrong with that, of course, if that’s what people like. But for many of us, having some meaning in what we do every day gets us out of bed with a smile on our faces rather than a sense of resignation.
You can find meaning in many different professions. Doctors, for example, often have a passion for what they do and feel like they’re doing good.
In the business world however, it can be harder to find that kind of passion. Having a great sustainability program can help by providing a motivator for people to get up and get after it.
As a sustainability leader, part of your job is to bring that passion and excitement to others and get them excited about doing something beyond just making a profit.
Sustainability candidates should demonstrate passion, initiative, and a willingness to learn.
31:32 Louis DeMaso
You mentioned how bringing passion and using it to influence is a big part of the role.
What type of person would be best suited for a job in sustainability? What character traits and skills would you look for if you were hiring for a sustainability role?
32:00 Ryan Spies
When hiring for sustainability roles, you don’t necessarily need specific skill sets or experiences, especially for entry-level positions. What matters most is a passion for sustainability topics, which could be shown through volunteer work, environmentalism, or social activism.
This isn’t always the case for more advanced positions that require specific skill sets, but, for entry-level positions, we’re looking for people with an entrepreneurial spirit who are willing to take on new challenges. Smart individuals who can think outside the box, identify opportunities, and drive new programs or initiatives are the perfect candidates.
So, when I review resumes and conduct interviews, I want to see evidence of this passion. I’m less concerned with your background and more interested in seeing that you’re willing to jump in and get involved.
Don’t tell me you are passionate about sustainability. Show me that you are passionate about sustainability. Go join local green building or social activist organizations.
Keep in mind that sustainability roles are not prescriptive. Instead, I need individuals who can think creatively, identify opportunities on their own, and drive change. So, if you’re passionate about sustainability, willing to take on new challenges, and motivated to make a positive impact, then you’re the type of person I’m looking for.
34:51 Louis DeMaso
That’s very insightful and helpful for people looking for sustainability roles.
It’s a great point that sustainability roles are often not prescriptive, meaning that you may not know exactly what you’re doing when you’re hired. These roles generally evolve over time and require a lot of flexibility in your job responsibilities.
Is that correct?
35:16 Ryan Spies
That’s true for almost every level of a sustainability career.
Flexibility is crucial.
It’s clear that you’ve done your research, had conversations, and maybe even gained some personal experience with this.
Every week will be different, and although you may have some long-term and medium-term goals, the specific way you achieve them and the direction the company takes can change.
Therefore, it’s important to be prepared for that change and remain flexible.
Ryan’s path to a career in sustainability.
35:59 Louis DeMaso
I would love to learn more about what it takes to be hired for a role like this. Perhaps we can touch on that through your own experience, which I want to have time to explore.
How have your past experience and education led you to where you are today?
What skills, certifications, and other qualifications did you develop over time that have helped you reach your current position?
36:26 Ryan Spies
Everyone follows their own path when it comes to sustainability.
Personally, I started with an engineering undergraduate degree. Although I haven’t really used those skills in a while, having an engineering background has helped me become a process thinker, which has been beneficial in my career.
To be honest, what really inspired me to get into sustainability was the movie “An Inconvenient Truth.” I realized that I wanted to make an impact on climate change, so I quit my job and went back to school to get my MBA.
I studied at Wash U in St. Louis full-time, focusing on business and gaining a better understanding of how I could make a real impact.
37:10 Louis DeMaso
It’s funny because some of our other guests said the same thing about the movie “An Inconvenient Truth”. I hope that the producers of that see that they really did inspire people to get into the industry and make a difference.
37:21 Ryan Spies
Absolutely, the movie was eye-opening and I think everybody needs to see it.
37:29 Ryan Spies
Regarding the MBA program, I had the opportunity to take some credits outside of the business school. Specifically, I took a sustainable design course and an energy efficiency audit course.
Although these courses were not directly related to business, I found them interesting and believed they could help me learn different facets of sustainability.
Between my first and second year of school, I interned at a company within their Environmental, Health, and Safety (EHS) group. During my internship, I worked on projects related to buildings.
That summer, I also obtained my LEED Green Associate certification, which is an entry-level green building accreditation.
I pursued and obtained these qualifications to demonstrate my willingness to go above and beyond.
After completing business school, I started working for a chemical company that sold products to be used in solar cells and cars. They needed someone to focus on their solar business, which was distinct from their buildings and cars business. Although it was not a sustainability role, it helped me learn about business strategy.
However, just three months into the job, they shut down the solar business, and I had to shift my focus to cars, even though it was not my preferred area. Nevertheless, I was able to learn a lot about strategy and competitive intelligence during this time.
About a year and a half later, our company was acquired by a larger chemical company with a dedicated sustainability group. They wanted to construct a new green building in Shanghai that would be LEED certified.
Fortunately, I had previously earned a LEED Green Associate accreditation, making me the only person in the company with knowledge of LEED. This was a clear example of preparation meeting opportunity.
40:21 Louis DeMaso
So, when you obtained your LEED Green Associate certification, you did not do so out of an immediate need, but rather because you were interested in it, and it turned out to be extremely useful.
40:47 Ryan Spies
That’s right. I raised my hand and said, “I would love to shepherd this in the company.”
Although it wasn’t a lot of work, no one knew what LEED was. So, I worked with our consultants to ensure we were doing everything right to achieve LEED certification. I even got to go to Shanghai, which was awesome.
This proved internally that I cared about sustainability and knew what I was doing, which allowed me to move into the company’s sustainability group.
Even though I wasn’t working on green buildings, I noticed that the company hadn’t done anything about waste. So, I suggested that we track it, and I started working on that.
Pursuing something interesting related to my field led me to a sustainability job.
After moving to Philadelphia, I worked remotely for a while before finding a role at Saint-Gobain, where I broadened my sphere of influence in energy and emissions, which is where my passion lies.
Looking back, it took six years after business school for me to get a role focusing on climate, which was a long time. However, I learned a lot along the way and made myself valuable to organizations.
When the opportunity finally came, I gave it my all. You have to be prepared for your opportunity and then go all in when it comes.
Let your passion shine through, and people will respond to that.
Position yourself to move into entry-level sustainability roles as they open up every two or three years.
43:43 Louis DeMaso
That’s an incredible story about how anyone can move into a sustainability role from right where they are today.
I think many people want to be hired directly into a sustainability role or wait until they get hired into one to start working on sustainability. However, as you described earlier, that’s the minority case.
The more common scenario is being in a company that has the opportunity to focus more on sustainability, and then taking advantage of that opportunity to try to get the company to act.
Would you agree with that?
44:00 Ryan Spies
Absolutely. As a leader in an executive position, I would prefer to hire someone from within my company who is passionate about our business and knowledgeable about it, rather than an external candidate who is unfamiliar with our industry, culture, and business.
There is much to learn within a company that can be beneficial for your work. Understanding the company culture is critical and can make a significant difference.
Some roles require specific experience, such as CDP and GRI reporting, and must be filled externally. However, for roles that require lots of internal engagement, it is helpful if the employee already knows the company culture.
If you are seeking an entry-level sustainability role, spend a year or two within a company you care about, show your passion, find extra projects, and work your way into that role.
Entry-level sustainability roles become available every two or three years because people want to grow, so they cannot be coordinators or analysts for five years.
I recommend positioning yourself for success by looking at how long someone has been in a particular job in a company you are interested in and using that information to determine when a sustainability role may become available.
46:07 Louis DeMaso
That’s perfect.
For listeners, the CDP and GRI experience that was mentioned refers to the Carbon Disclosure Project and the Global Reporting Initiative. These are two global reporting frameworks that sustainability professionals use to develop reports and strategies.
Companies are preparing for an increased focus on greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions and you can too.
46:24 Louis DeMaso
Ryan, you mentioned that obtaining LEED certification and an MBA are both useful skills and tools for your job.
Are there any other resources or tools in this field that you would recommend people pursue if they are interested in sustainability?
46:53 Ryan Spies
Having a good understanding of emissions reporting and The Greenhouse Gas (GHG) Protocol is crucial, especially with the SEC potentially mandating publicly traded companies to report their emissions.
The GHG Protocol is the underlying framework that the SEC is using to determine whether they will require scope one, scope two, or all three scopes.
Although the rules may be challenged by less progressive individuals, they are likely to be published soon. Even if the SEC does not institute mandatory reporting, most global companies will still need to report their emissions because the European Union mandates it.
A background in finance, audit, or accounting would be advantageous when these rules come into effect. Companies are already preparing for these rules and hiring to avoid being caught off guard.
The companies fighting against climate regulations are probably not the companies I would want to work for. Instead, I would want to work for companies that are already implementing sustainable practices.
However, this does not mean that we should overlook those companies that need to improve their sustainability efforts.
While we all want to work for cool brands like Patagonia, we need to consider whether we can make a bigger impact by working for companies that are not as well-known for their sustainability efforts.
It’s important to find a place where you can make a real impact, and that’s usually not going to be the place that everyone has heard of.
49:30 Louis DeMaso
This has been a great conversation about the various paths for getting into sustainability work and developing the necessary skills. Thank you, Ryan, for sharing your experience and insights. Do you have any final thoughts to share?
50:17 Ryan Spies
No, this has been a great conversation.
Most sustainability professionals enjoy discussing their work. We likely wouldn’t be working in this field if we didn’t.
I appreciate your time and insightful questions, Louis. I will definitely recommend your podcast to others. Thank you.
